I gotta know...

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of Notre Dame
1

<p>Right now, Notre Dame is a reach for me, and I know it. I'm not going to try to pretend its not; but Notre Dame is the one school that I have always wanted to attend and I'm going to try my hardest to get to this school and cheer for the Irish with the rest of the class of 2010.</p>

<p>I wanted to know if it would hurt me applying EA... I figure that if I'm not to the standard to make it in EA, then I will just get deferred to RD; And if I'm not good enough to make it either EA or RD, then I will just get rejected in December and I wont have to stress over it. So could someone please council me on what I should do in this situation? Here are my stats just in case you wanted to see them...</p>

<p>School Type: Medium Public (nationally recognized top academic school; 1 of 2 high schools in the nation to be authorized to offer CLEP exams)</p>

<p>Location: Crestwood, KY, USA
Race/Gender: White/ Male
Prospective Major: Political Science
Unweighted GPA: 3.65
Weighted GPA: 4.21
Class rank: 23 of 247 9.3% (school doesn’t officially rank, but I requested to know anyways)</p>

<p>SAT I Math: 590
SAT I Verbal: 630
Composite: 1220 (this was the old and I'm taking the new and hoping to get a 1350; I've been studying like crazy)</p>

<p>ACT Composite: 28 </p>

<p>Extracurricular Info:
Class President (11,12)
Captain of Varsity football team (11,12)
Varsity football player (9.10,11,12)
National Honor Society (11,12)
Beta Club (9,10,11,12)
KUNA (Kentucky United Nations Assembly) (9,10)
30+ hrs of community service a year feeding underprivileged children
Young Republican<br>
Who among American High School Student
Advisory board (11,12)
Senior Leadership board (12)
Debate team (11,12)
Academic Team (10,11,12)
Rank of Star in Boy scouts </p>

<p>Other Info:
Catholic
3- AP World History Exam
3- AP U.S. History Exam</p>

<p>Senior Schedule:
AP English Composition/ Literature
AP European History
AP Calculus BC
Anatomy
(I am taking all the AP available that coincide with my schools master schedule) </p>

<p>I'm being recruited to play football at a few Ivy league schools, I don’t know if this helps my chances at ND or not. </p>

<p>I was thinking about writing my essay about my conversion to Catholicism. (The story behind it is I was baptized Lutheran and stopped going to church an early age. I made a personal decision without the influence of anything or anyone else and did it on my own.) What do you think bout my essay idea? Some people have been telling me college don’t like it but I feel like it was a defining moment in my past and I think it would work.</p>

2

<p>Unless you get your SAT to about a 1400 or above...I would'nt go with EA at Notre Dame.</p>

3

<p>caddyshack, why do you say i shouldnt apply EA? If I'm not good enough for EA but am good enough for RA, then wont they just defer me?</p>

4

<p>I agree with Caddyshack, I would wait and just do RA if I were you. The problem I ran into with EA is that when I applied (2003 so we had the big increase in applications due to the success of the football team) the increase in applications for EA was greater than it was for the overall applicant pool. Because of that, they were more cautious than they had to be with EA because they didn't know how big the entire applicant pool is.</p>

<p>Yes, Notre Dame says that they will defer you, and I believe them that if you are close they will, but I still don't think it is a good idea to go EA unless you are a very very strong candidate (I made the mistake of going EA the first time around). EA is made so that they can accept as many of their top applicants as they can as fast as they can and so that they can better compete with other upper universities since students will hear from ND first. Given the deadlines of EA though, they have to go through all those applications very very quickly. If you are borderline, I think going RA is a better choice just because I think your application will get more attention just because they have more time to read it over. I really think your best bet is I would turn your application in in time for EA, but apply RA so they have as much time with it as possible. If you go EA I just think that you may end up ****ing off some of the admissions people because they tell you time and time again not to apply EA unless you are really strong, and it probably just doesn't rub them the right way when people don't listen. </p>

<p>Also, something to consider...I know that EA is tempting because it has a 50% acceptance rate (that is why I applied EA, though I was rejected and had to transfer) but that is because most of the applicants are extremely strong and really you are only seeing the strongest of the strong. </p>

<p>I don't know, it really is up to you, but what I can tell you is that I REGRET not applying RA. That isn't to say I regret how everything happened, I actually wouldn't trade being a transfer for anything, it is an amazing experience believe it or not. If I was trying to get in the first time with the stats I had, however (which are similar to yours) I would go RA. That is just my $.02 however.</p>

5

<p>Hoopster, RETAKE YOUR ACT as well. They'll consider whichever is higher.</p>

6

<p>Hate to burst your bubble...but just because they win a football game doesn't make them more academically appealing. Just because the Olsen twins go to NYU doesn't make it the hardest school to get into. Just because Notre Dame wins a football game doesn't mean a million kids are going to apply there, making it impossible.</p>

7

<p>And you never know w/ the admissions people. Quite a few people at my school got into ND with 23's and 24's on their ACT's,3.4 GPA's...NOT recruited athletes or legacies, they were Hispanics in the IB program, but white males w/ 28's aren't out of luck. Just FYI.</p>

8

<p>Thanks for the suggestions Irish and everyone else, I'm gona wait for my SAT scores to come in and then im gona send off my App. depending on how I do... But i have yet another question: Neither of my parents graduated from college because of financial reason, but my father did attend college for a year or two; am I considered a first generation college student and will this help me what so ever?</p>

9

<p>Being a first generation college student does help, but I don't know the answer to your specific situation. </p>

<p>Heat24, "Quite a few?" Sorry but I doubt it. One or two, maybe. </p>

<p>Also, it is a proven fact that when a flagship college athletic team does well, such as football or men's basketball, applications take a jump, and sometimes it's a big one. This is true not just at ND (even though it did, indeed, happen at ND a couple of years ago) but at every school in the country. If you don't believe me, just take a look at Northern Illinois, a rather nondescript MAC school. The year their football team became highly successful their applications jumped almost 40%.</p>

10

<p>Nice post docmom, I completely agree.</p>

11

<p>Look at the caliber of school though....Northern Illinois? Comparable to ND? Down here in Florida, UF might get more apps than FSU if their team is better one year...but that's because it's relatively easy to get into and people who go there are likely not set on what school they really want to go to. Applicants see Notre Dame winning a football game and then find out it's 80% catholic and in the middle of the boondocks and some might shy away. Just my two cents...</p>

12

<p>Heat24, I posted a similar question asking if anyone thought that ND's recent football success would cause a rise in applicants and/or applicant quality, and Irish pointed out that his year (when Ty had a good season and ND was ranked as high as #4), applications went up 15%. This will mostly likely happen again, though who knows by what %. I'd be more curious to know the quality of the applicants who wouldn't have applied if it wasnt for football. I wonder how many of the academic elite really care so much about football that a good outlook for ND's team is going to make them apply when they originally wouldn't have.</p>

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<p>That's what I mean...I'm doubtful that competition will be steeper...</p>

14

<p>Heat, I know we can't please you, but all I can tell you is it did make a difference last time and probably will again. I know I can't prove this to you because I can't look into my crystal ball and predict the future stats, but if it happened before wouldn't it be most prudent to assume it will probably happen again? Will it be a huge difference in who gets in and who doesn't, I don't think so, but it will make a difference. It is very possible that the difference can be found in the kids of alumni, for example, where they didn't want to go to ND but football caught their attention. They may be elite students, they may not, but most are pretty good if they are even thinking of applying to ND. That is my take on it at least.</p>

15

<p>I wouldn't suggest you try for early admission. We were in the admissions office this summer (our middle child is a h.s. senior this year) and we asked about her chances early admission. She has a 3.96 GPA ; her SAT's are in the 600's and 720 (writing.) Based just on her SAT's, the counselor suggested that she apply RD.</p>

<p>If I were you, I'd take the SATs as many times as possible. It will be worth the extra money if you do get in. Good luck!</p>

16

<p>Heat, a quick search finds there is, indeed, an acknowledged increase in applications depending on flagship sports' success. The following paragraphs are excerpts from several sources:</p>

<p>Andrew Zimbalist, an economist from Smith College in Massachusetts, has studied the correlation between athletic programs’ success and general student admissions. Zimbalist said he has found that if a university is successful in athletics, particularly football or men’s basketball, applications tend to increase. “You also then have to acknowledge that when the team performs poorly, it’ll go in the opposite direction,” Zimbalist said. </p>

<p>"Whether it's called the 'Flutie factor' or 'mission-driven intercollegiate athletics,' the effect of having a winning sports team is showing up at admissions offices nationwide." —USA Today, "Winning One for the Admissions Office," July 11, 1997</p>

<p>At Georgetown University, whose men's basketball team appeared in NCAA championship games in 1982, 1984, and 1985, applications rose 45 percent between 1983 and 1986. And freshman enrollment at Gonzaga University rose from 549 to 979 between 1997 and 2001, years in which Gonzaga's men's basketball team outplayed some of the nation's powerhouses in the NCAA tournament. Were there other reasons for the rise of Georgetown and Gonzaga? No doubt, but they were not nationally televised.</p>

<p>While Litan, Orzag and Orzag (2003) found no relationship between increased athletic expenditures and academic quality, considerable evidence supports the idea that athletic success increases student applications (Murphy and Trandel 1994, Zimbalist 1999).</p>

17

<p>...That's why New York University receives more applications than any other school in the US(nearly 34,000 last year) and their sports teams are far from stellar compared to ND. What about Harvard, the most prestigious university in this country?...where do their sports stand? Just cause some guys can throw a leather ball in the air doesn't mean the school is any more prestigious, and anyone willing to apply to a school just b/c of that isn't too smart.</p>

18

<p>And studies...ever hear of experimenter bias?....These guys are funded by people who are big in the sports world.</p>

19

<p>Heat, first of all we are talking about an increase in applications, not overall applications. I know that you want to make yourself look good but trying to change the entire topic so you have a chance of being right isn't the way to do it. The fact is that if the sports teams do well, applications go up. That is the discussion, not overall applications. If you care to make a point, make it on the right topic.</p>

<p>As for research methods, if you would like to debate them, I am more than happy to debate them with you. I am a junior psychology major who got an A in Research Methods and I have been actively doing research as a research assistant for 1.5 years. If you think there is bias give me some fact that proves it and we will debate it. You aren't even sure who funds the studies but you are making a guess that it is someone who is biased. Even if it was funded by someone who may be bias, if the study is done right, it may be a perfectly valid study.</p>

<p>If you want to debate this stuff give me some FACTS that are ON TOPIC and then we will talk.</p>

20

<p>Are you catholic? Aren't we on the message board for a catholic university? You're awfully hostile, if you're spreading the word of our Lord.</p>