I have a couple of questions about attending an AUSTRALIAN university next year

<p>I am from Canada and my marks aren't that great right now and it is when we are sending them in to universities.</p>

<p>I will still also apply in Canada but I was wondering about the procedure in Australia because school doesn't start until February? I'm not sure if that's correct.</p>

<p>I was looking at schools like Australian National University, University of Melbourne and University of Sydney. And I'd like to study Kinesiology, Health Science or Life Science.</p>

<p>What are the averages to get into these schools for those programs? Or can someone direct me to a website, thankyou!!</p>

<p>Or do you have any other advice concerning my grade situation besides moving to another country? </p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>Yes, most universities start in February, or early March, though some courses do start in January. </p>

<p>What grade are you in currently? Just about all applications to Australian Universities closed around October last year. </p>

<p>The cut-off For Health Science at University of Sydney is an ATAR of 82, which is equivalent to about a 1550 SAT score (I’m not really sure of Canada’s scoring system). The cut-offs should be quite similar at Australian National University and University of Melbourne. I’m pretty sure Australia only has Health Science courses. We don’t have life science, it’s more specific here, but if you’re thinking of degrees in medicine, dentistry etc., these are extremely competitive and difficult to get into. And we don’t have kinesology courses, I think they’re called something else… not sure :)</p>

<p>ATAR/UAI Cut-offs for Usyd (they only show cut-offs for Domestic Students)</p>

<p>[UAI</a> cut-offs 2009 - Domestic undergraduate - The University of Sydney](<a href=“Study - The University of Sydney”>How to apply for undergraduate courses - The University of Sydney)</p>

<p>Costs and courses:
[Undergraduate</a> Courses for International Students - International Student Office - The University of Sydney](<a href=“http://sydney.edu.au/internationaloffice/publications/ug.shtml]Undergraduate”>http://sydney.edu.au/internationaloffice/publications/ug.shtml)</p>

<p>Studying in Australia as an international student can be very expensive, its $17,000 AUD per semester (AUD is on par with canadian dollars right now)</p>

<p>I am currently in grade 12 and is the ATAR standardized test required or can I just hand in my percentages from my courses?</p>

<p>And so I cant apply this year? Because I thought I would be applying in the summer :S</p>

<p>And so what would be the average to get into health science in grade percentage? </p>

<p>Sorry I can’t find much online</p>

<p>And price isn’t my main concern, I just need to get into a good school. :P</p>

<p>Dear Ily,</p>

<p>You may already know this about the Australian universities you listed, but for broad-brushed comparative purposes, in the most recent U.S. News list of the World’s Best Colleges and Universities (September 2010), </p>

<p>the Australian National University was ranked 20th (McGill was ranked 18th and Toronto ranked 29th);
the University of Sydney was ranked 37th;
the University of Melbourne ranked 38th (UBC was ranked 44th); and
the University of New South Wales - which is in Sydney and also offers degrees in the health sciences - was ranked 46th.</p>

<p>Epicgee has given fine advice. It also seems to me that it would be a good idea for you to go to the websites of each of these universities and and get the contact details of the departments you’re interested in (as well as the admissions offices), to begin correspondence to identify how you might be considered for admission. It is the case that each Australian university commences in February, but, I believe, there also are some international student intakes in July. </p>

<p>Another place you might go for information would be an Australian embassy or consulate in Canada. Again, just Google for contact details and speak with someone about some of your questions. If they can’t help directly, you can always ask them to suggest someone who might be of more assistance.</p>

<p>It’s important for you to know that the ATAR or Australian Tertiary Admission Rank (and its now-superceded predecessor, the UAI or University Admission Index) is not a standardised test. So it’s not like an SAT and isn’t something that international students not following an Australian secondary curriculum can take. But it is important for you to understand how it works, because when you do apply, your Canadian credentials will have been considered with regard to the various ATAR ranks of Australian applicants.</p>

<p>An ATAR is a rank - it is not a grade or a mark - given to each Australian university applicant, on a state by state basis, when they complete their final secondary school examinations. In New South Wales, for example, for the school year just ended, almost 72,000 students sat the NSW Higher School Certificate examinations (in Victoria, these exams are called the Victorian Certificate Examinations or VCE and Victorian students also receive an ATAR; each state has its own label for these types of exams). Similarly to the UK A-level/O-level/GCSE system (and maybe the Canadian system, I don’t know), these HSC or VCE or other states’ exams are given to students after intensive study for two years, with, in the case of the HSC, the final HSC examinations themselves counting as 50% of each HSC course taken (e.g. English Advanced, Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, Physics, Ancient History, Modern History, Music, Visual Arts, Drama, any of a number of languages, etc.). The HSC/VCE, etc. exams are taken in October and November and students received their HSC/VCE. etc. scores, which are converted to an ATAR ranking in each state, in December. In the case of New South Wales (the largest state), ATAR ranks are issued in groups of approximately 35 students per hundredth - from a high of 99.95 to a low of 0.05. </p>

<p>Unlike U.S. universities (though I don’t know about Canadian universities), Australian universities have a fixed number of entrants permitted per year to each degree. In other words, just like Oxbridge, you are admitted to a degree (not just a university) and jump straight into your major from the first day. The ATAR rank, therefore, is used by all Australian universities to determine the cut-off below which people who would like to study for that degree are not permitted to do so. For example, each year the University of Sydney has, say, some 200 or so places available for commencing a five-year combined arts/commerce or otherwise plus law degree (which is an undergraduate degree at most Australian universities). For the entering class which began in February 2010, the ATAR cut-off was 99.65 (from 2005-2009 it was 99.55 and cut-offs do vary slightly from year to year, depending on the number of people seeking entry to a particular degree in a given year). At UNSW last year, for combined law, the ATAR cut-off was 99.55. At ANU it was, from memory, around 95.00. And at Melbourne Uni, which has now shifted law to a post-graduate degree, if a student received an ATAR over 99.00 this year (and maintains a specified grade average in their 3-year undergraduate degree) they are guaranteed entry into post-graduate law (where they study a 2-year J.D.).</p>

<p>Most universities worldwide - and Australian universities are no exception - have methods to convert the secondary school credentials of international students to determine whether a given student can be considered for admission to the degree they seek. I don’t know how the credentials of Canadian students are assessed, nor do I know what, if any, additional factors might be required or considered. </p>

<p>While there is no single listing all of the degree courses across Australia (or at least that I know of), there is an organisation in each Australian state which can provide some information. In New South Wales (and the Australian Capital Territory) that body is called the Universities Admissions Centre or UAC. Its website is [Universities</a> Admissions Centre (UAC) - Apply for Australian tertiary study](<a href=“http://www.uac.edu.au%5DUniversities”>http://www.uac.edu.au). In Victoria, that body is called the Victorian Tertiary Admissions Centre or VTAC. Its website is [VTAC</a> - Victorian Tertiary Admissions Centre](<a href=“http://www.vtac.edu.au%5DVTAC”>http://www.vtac.edu.au). (I don’t know what the other states’ are, but Googling the name of x-state plus “tertiary admissions”, probably will retrieve the appropriate sites.) On the UAC website’s homepage, for example, there is a listing for International Students, which will have some pertinent information for you. On the VTAC website, scrolling down the menu on the left-hand side of the home page under ‘General Information’ shows a listing for ‘Overseas qualifications’. Clicking on this will take you to a page which lists requisite Canadian qualifications by province. (BTW, just a quick look further on the VTAC website directs one to the Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority’s website. They have a page headed ‘Equivalent Qualifications’ at <a href=“Pages - VCE Curriculum”>www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/vcerecognition.equiquals/equivalentquals.html</a>. That page has a link called Assessment of overseas qualifications for VCE Equivalent - Year 12. That page, under Canada, gives more specific information, by province, of the minimum acceptable marks that will be considered.) </p>

<p>What I do suspect is that, like with almost any large institution, you will need a little persistence in locating the people you’ll find most helpful in answering your questions. Besides contacting the universities and an embassy, contacting someone at each of these Centres should be helpful for you, too. These Centres assess international secondary credentials and should be able to tell you the range of degree courses - and at which universities - you might be eligible to consider (and to be considered for, by the university).</p>

<p>You’ll probably know this already, but Australia has other fine universities besides the three listed in your post, each offering well-regarded health-based degrees. They may be worth researching/contacting at the same time as the ones you listed: e.g. Monash (in Melbourne), the University of Adelaide (in South Australia), the University of Tasmania (in Hobart), the University of Western Australia (in Perth) and the University of Queensland (in Brisbane). Australia also has two large private universities: Bond University (in Queensland) and the Australian Catholic University (in Sydney - and, maybe, in Perth). </p>

<p>Because you’re considering Southern Hemisphere universities, don’t forget New Zealand as another Commonwealth country destination. New Zealand has some outstanding health-based faculties (see the Universities of Auckland, Christ Church, Otago, etc.).</p>

<p>Good luck with your considerations and contacting people. It may sound a little complicated, but I would find it hard to believe that you would be the first student from Canada looking to enter an Australian university as a first-year undergraduate. Someone at each of these uni’s and the various State admissions centres will know how to advise you.</p>

<p>Good luck again,
Weetbixmum</p>

<p>Ily:</p>

<p>Nah the SATs aren’t required, its just really hard to find the equivalent percentages… though i’m GUESSING around 60% average? but don’t quote me on this :)</p>

<p>applying in summer, your summer or southern hemisphere summer?
If you’re currently in grade 12, and it’s winter over there, that would mean you apply in summer for entry in fall right? most students start in january/feb/march over here, or july for semester two.</p>

<p>Just some random info about the universities:</p>

<p>Australian National University is the highest ranked in Australia but it’s in Canberra, which some people find boring (its a small city with not as many people as Melbourne or Sydney), however i hear most people live on campus, so theres more of that ‘college’ feeling.</p>

<p>University of Sydney and University of NSW are both in Sydney, which is a really awesome city (has the opera house and harbour bridge and bondi beach), but Melbourne is pretty good too. However, less people live on campus in Sydney and Melbourne, it’s mostly internationals or interstate students.</p>

<p>Wow thanks for all the information! I’ll look into it and start calling some representatives of the school.</p>

<p>And I plan on going there next year, and applying during Canadian summer, so June. And attending in the fall.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And this website didn’t work and I would really like to see the cutt off averages for the schools. So do you know another website to find this information Weetbixmum?</p>

<p>And epicgee thanks for that information! I think I’ll be considering Sydney as my main one so far I just have to look into them more :P</p>

<p>And do you know what average I should be aiming for by the end of the year? Would 85 be good enough for health science or would I be looking at somewhere around 90 since Australia has some of the top schools world wide.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yah that’s around a 60 average for SATs but what about course averages? What is the cut off for health sciences and does Australia take the average of your six grade 12 courses, only required, or less than 6?</p>

<p>60% for course averages as well. The cut-off for health sciences is about 82 ATAR, but subjects are scaled etc. an 82 ATAR isn’t extremely difficult to get. Yeah Australia only takes into account grade 12 courses, but subjects have different weightings here. Approximately 5-6 subjects.</p>

<p>Dear Ily,</p>

<p>In NSW, to get an 82 ATAR this year would mean that a student would be in the top 12,500 or so students in the state, if all almost 72,000 students who sat the NSW HSC went on to receive a NSW ATAR. Not all did, because a number of students who sat the HSC exams may not want to go to university or prefer to go to a technical college or try for an apprenticeship or, just in general, know they aren’t interested in university. As a result, the number receiving a NSW ATAR could be a fair bit lower. Because it almost certainly is a fair bit lower, you might need to be in the top, say, 8,000 or 9,000 students to have received an 82 ATAR. You’ve said your grades aren’t great and I have no idea whether you would be in the top 8,000 or 9,000 NSW ATAR students or not. The best that any thread like this can offer is suggestions for finding ways to gather valid information about your actual position so you can then consider your options. </p>

<p>As noted in my earlier post, the ATAR cut-off scores, by degree, at each university in a state are listed in each state’s tertiary admission centre website. They also will be listed on the website of each university.</p>

<p>It looks to me like the only way for you to determine whether you are eligible to be considered to be admitted for any degree at any of the Australian universities listed in each state’s tertiary admission centre website is to submit your credentials for evaluation by the appropriate credentials assessment boards in the state in which the university you might like to attend is located. Evidently, any Australian university you seek to apply to will require that assessment as part of their paperwork in considering your application. Only after you have that official assessment can you estimate whether you are likely to be able to enter a degree course that you would like, much less actually be considered for admission. Anything else is pure speculation.</p>

<p>You mentioned kinesiology. In Australia that is known as human movement. If you type in the words ‘human movement’ on the UAC Undergraduate Course Search page, it will list a variety of uni’s in New South Wales offering a degree in this or a closely related field and the January 2010 NSW ATAR cut-offs for each of those degrees (the NSW ATAR cut-off’s for this year’s entering class don’t come out until next week, so there could be some variation over the next few weeks, but it probably won’t be too much). Charles Sturt University-Bathurst, Southern Cross University-Lismore, UNSW, University of Sydney and the University of Technology Sydney-Kuring-gai, each list Bachelor’s degrees of various types in that field. </p>

<p>Good luck with your search.</p>

<p>[The</a> Australian Commonwealth Register of Institutions and Courses for Overseas Students (CRICOS)](<a href=“http://cricos.deewr.gov.au/?Redirect=Y]The”>http://cricos.deewr.gov.au/?Redirect=Y)</p>

<p>You can use the search functions at this site to find the universities that offer the program(s) that you are interested in.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>So you’re saying that I would only need a 60% average (based on my grade 12 courses) to get into the University of Sydney lets say. But that doesn’t make sense considering the University of Sydney is ranked 19th in the World for top universities - life science and medicine in the QS World University Rankings 2010.
[QS</a> World University Rankings 2010 - Life Sciences & Medicine | Top Universities](<a href=“http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/subject-rankings/life-science-biomedicine]QS”>http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/subject-rankings/life-science-biomedicine)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>By this do you mean submit my current course averages?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And so what your saying is that this ATAR test is mandatory/required for all students, including international students? And I am assuming it is equivalent to that of an SAT test?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And thanks! Because that’s what I am interested in the most actually, so I’ll check that out right now. :)</p>

<p>Dear Ily,</p>

<p>Your first quote is from epicgee. I didn’t say it. Personally, I also don’t believe that a 60% GPA will translate into a rank that is anywhere high enough to get you in to the degrees you said you were seeking. I wouldn’t think a 70% GPA would either. Nor, possibly, an 80% GPA. But I don’t know. ONLY the relevant tertiary assessment centres will know. You must contact them.</p>

<p>As I’ve said before, you can’t take the ATAR. It’s not a test. It’s a rank. A rank is given to every student applying for first-year university admission. In NSW, students finishing year 12 exams were ranked, in descending order, from 1 to 72,000. The top possible rank is 99.95; in NSW, students ranked from 1 to approx. 35 were given the rank of 99.95; students ranked from 36 to approx. 70 were given the rank 99.90, and so on. The students with the highest ranks - and all students with a rank above 99.50 (in other words, the top one-half of 1% of the students in the state) - are extraordinary students. Most stay in Australia and do the degrees of their choice (because their marks are so high, basically they can do whatever degree they want, from, say, medicine or law, to human movement to education to wine-making, you name it). Some go to Oxford and Cambridge; some go to the Ivies and other U.S. universities; some, I suspect, go to McGill and Toronto.</p>

<p>Your grades need to be submitted for assessment by the state tertiary assessment centre of your choice (just like an Australian student does, actually) and you receive a rank (just like an Australian student) - or, more accurately, a rank equivalent, I suspect. Once you get a rank equivalent, you can apply for a degree. The degree you can apply for depends on your rank. If your rank is above a rank cut-off for a particular degree, you’re in. If it’s below, you can’t go for that degree.</p>

<p>Please contact the relevant tertiary admissions centre in the states which have the universities you would like to attend. They will be able to give answer all your questions.</p>

<p>Yeah, sorry, my 60% was a really really rough guess. It’s really hard to find equivalents.</p>

<p>This link has an ATAR score guide, it’s for Macquarie university, but i don’t think the equivalents would change too much.</p>

<p>[ATAR</a> Score Guide - Macquarie International - Macquarie University](<a href=“International students | Study | Macquarie University Sydney”>International students | Study | Macquarie University Sydney)</p>

<p>Life Sciences and Medicine is a big faculty/department. Health sciences in Australia is a completely different degree to a degree in life sciences/med e.g. Health sciences you need an 82 ATAR, whereas medicine you must sit UMAT and usually 98+ ATAR.</p>

<p>For medicine and some health sciences courses you’ll have to sit UMAT. I’m not sure whether it applies to international students though.</p>

<p>Excellent link, epicgee. If Ily looks at the page you’ve located plus the information given in the ‘How to Apply’ and other links on your reference page, hopefully a lot of Ily’s questions can be addressed - at least with respect to Macquarie Uni.</p>

<p>As you’ve alluded to, one question that remains unclear is whether Macquarie’s ‘equivalency’ charts are similar to USyd’s or UNSW’s.</p>

<p>Here is a link to international equivalencies for UNSW (click through for the PDF), but it doesn’t seem to refer to any health sciences degrees:
[Undergradate</a> degree entry requirements :: UNSW International](<a href=“http://www.international.unsw.edu.au/courses-applying/applying/entry-requirements/undergradate-degree-entry-requirements/]Undergradate”>http://www.international.unsw.edu.au/courses-applying/applying/entry-requirements/undergradate-degree-entry-requirements/)</p>

<p>It’s hard to say whether USyd has a similar kind of ‘equivalencies’ link. Instead, it has a page which basically says, amongst other things, a Canadian student has to have a specified provincial diploma or certificate and then needs to contact the Admissions Office for additional minimum requirements. [Summary</a> list of recognised academic qualifications from overseas - Domestic undergraduate - The University of Sydney](<a href=“Study - The University of Sydney”>How to apply for undergraduate courses - The University of Sydney)</p>

<p>Clicking on that same USyd page’s cut-off’s link shows that the 2010 ATAR for Health Sciences was 85.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for the excellent MacUni link, epicgee. Hopefully, Ily will find it helpful.</p>