<p>just send in a note saying this is going on,and that you are afraid of retribution so you can't sign your name and don't want other kids to shun you...suggest the teacher change the tests as a solution...because people are using old copies....you could send this to the counselor who would then approach the teacher</p>
<p>I have sent in anonymous notes to my Ds elementay school because we feared retribution from the teachers involved, sad but true, never was suspected</p>
<p>Are kids in the teacher's other classes doing the same thing? If so, it could be anyone in the school</p>
<p>Put it this way, if my D told me this was going on in a class she wasn't even taking, I would send in a note, saying, I don't know exactly what kids are doing this, but kids are talking about using old siblings tests to study from and memorizing the answers for the test, as a parent I felt it is my responsibilty to let you know...I of course know you can't punish the kids, BUT perhaps you can make up new tests without, and just present them, and see what happens. You may never catch the cheaters, but you can stop it from continuing to some degree....</p>
<p>what happened in our school was that kids in different schools would take the same exact test, maybe a few days apart, and some kids would share their returned tests with their friends who had yet to take it...so, the teachers learned about this and would recollect the tests after showing the kids the grades, and return them at a later date...some perfect students weren't so perfect</p>
<p>and as for the lead cheater...you can bet he cheats everywhere</p>
<p>I know the lead cheater cheats in other classes. He was caught cheating on a French quiz last year. I don't know why he does either because he is pretty bright.</p>
<p>Can you say to the teacher: "Do you realize that students have access to old test questions and that this facilitate cheating? May I suggest you change the questions?"</p>
<p>I wouldn't even use the word "cheating." I would send an anonymous note (possibly sending a copy to the principal) stating that you want the teacher to be aware that some students have access to prior year exams that are being used this year, and he might want to consider changing the exams. Yes you run the risk of the teacher reading this note to the entire class. </p>
<p>The teacher may or may not consider that cheating. It's his call. </p>
<p>Choose your college carefully. At West Point there would be no dilemma. It would be your obligation under the Honor Code to turn in the cheaters.
"A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do." (I understand you are not currently a cadet)</p>
<p>Hepstar,
I'm guessing that this is going to keep gnawing at you until you do something. Either report them anonymously or talk to the teacher privately. If you do send an anonymous note, I would also send another copy to the Principal so you know that you have covered your bases.</p>
<p>Why not find a way to frame them? Ask for a copy of the old test. Slip it under the cheaters desks on the top of some other random papers after the day of the test inconspicuously. The teacher will find it.</p>
<p>Have you ever seen the movie "The Emperor's Club"? Even when Bell was lying outright to everyone around him, the teacher said nothing. He knew that the consequences of his actions would catch up to him in due time, and be much more damaging than anything he might have accomplished by simply announcing to all that he cheated.</p>
<p>I've gone through the same situation before, with friends cheating on tests and never being punished. The thing is, does it really matter if they cheat or not? They're only hurting themselves as they won't understand the material they're being taught as well, and they'll likely feel guilty about doing it in the future. Of course, if the material they're learning is worthless and won't have any effect on them in the future, what does that say about the class? And if the people cheating have no qualms about it, what does that say about them?</p>
<p>The simple fact is, you won't change anything by attempting to do the "right thing", except perhaps losing your friends and alienating your classmates. Whether or not it is right, loyalty is a very important attribute to most, and bringing potentially harsh consequences upon your friends is wrong.</p>
<p>Incidentally, asking this question on a parents forum is not going to give you objective answers, as it is quite obvious what most will say.</p>
<p>Seems as though the teacher is going to have a lot of explaining to do when most of his class does poorly on the AP exam. Has this cheating gone on in years prior? Will there be a marked decline in his AP exam pass rate?</p>
<p>I know this is frustrating, but I'm not sure what can be done. Frankly, I don't think a teacher can be so clueless. He allows old tests to be kept by students and he uses them over again. He has to know what's up.</p>
<p>I remember something similar happening to my daughter in Physics when they were assigned a group project to build a catapult. Two of the very best and brightest Physics students 'recycled' a catapult belonging to one of their older siblings. By recycled, I mean they didn't do one second of work on the project, other than dusting off the old catapult. It had a very distinctive appearance and it had rec'd a perfect grade from the same Physics teacher the year before. The students actually bragged about not having to do anything to a few people and word got out. The students in the class made very loud comments in front of the teacher about this group cheating; and it was pretty obvious when everyone else was spending class time for weeks working on the project, that something was up with the group who had a perfectly completed project the day after it was assigned. And while other kids were sweating and fine tuning the calibration of their catapults up until the due date, the cheaters hit the target perfectly every time from day one. </p>
<p>But the teacher did nothing. She knew....she just chose to do nothing. I think your Calc BC teacher is doing the same thing.</p>
<p>I've already chimed in with advice to the OP. But. I don't think this is a clear-cut case of cheating. If I was in school and someone gave me a stack of tests previously given by this professor, you bet I'd use them as study material. In the absence of any other evidence, why do so many of you call this cheating?</p>
<p>Washdad: I've already posted why I think this violates academic integrity (#15, I think). I don't use the word cheating because I think that word is too vague. Academic integrity, correctly representing yourself and your work, has a pretty clear definition, and I think these kids crossed that line. There is no place for gaming the system in academic integrity.</p>
<p>I find myself thinking about what I would do if I were the teacher. The temptation would be to make a test that resembles the previous test but is slightly different, so that the cheaters might use the incorrect answers they had memorized and drag their grades down even further.
The OP on the other hand is obliged to tell the GC or teacher.</p>
<p>Beck, I saw your post and it's a compelling argument. I don't know that I disagree with it.</p>
<p>Some of the nastiest professors I had in college would do finals where they would hand out 25 essay questions and tell us that five of them would be the final exam. They would not, however, tell us which five. I heard of an advanced mathematics teacher who always drew his final exam questions from a set he'd been using for years. Everyone knew what they were, and old exams were easy to find. The problem was that he had dozens of problems in the file, and only a few of them were used on the tests. Both of these examples follow the same pattern, which is to embody the course expectations in a set of questions couched as final exam possibilities. In preparing to handle any possible question, the student acquires the knowledge and/or skills the instructor expects of them. Like I said -- really sneaky.</p>
<p>This teacher might want to consider a similar system.</p>
<p>I disagree that the only ones who will be hurt by this are the students who are using these tests not as "study guides" but as shortcuts to a good grade. Since the tests are the same from year to year, memorizing the problem is not the same as using the test as a study guide to learn how to do similar types of problems. Those students who are not using old tests could have their ranks impacted unfairly. </p>
<p>It is likely that the teacher knows that the old tests are out there and that some students have access to them every year. He has chosen to do nothing. He may be using this as a replacement for actually making sure the students understand the concepts. He may not consider this cheating but rather no different than curving a grade or extra credit. The problem with this is that generally, everyone has the same access to extra credit or curving a grade. When only a limited number of students have advanced access to the test, any sense of fair play goes out the window. </p>
<p>Would it be possible for you to talk with a teacher you trust about your dilemna? If it is someone who knows this teacher, they may be able to help you determine if the math teacher considers this perfectly acceptable or not? If this is the case, then the question becomes why doesn't everyone have access to these exams and would the math teacher consider it acceptable for you to use these tests also. If the answer is the math teacher has no clue, then you can see if the teacher you talk with could clue him in without involving you. That way, you can honestly say to your friends that you did not talk with the math teacher. I highly doubt the math teacher will care though. Getting feedback about how the use of these old tests is viewed will, however, help you cope better with what is going on.</p>
<p>I'm a fan of using old exams as study tools, but this instance does seem to me to be cheating, since the students involved are apparently doing little work other than memorizing the correct answers. I'd say it's cheating if the kids knowingly obtain information prior to the test in order to get higher grades than the amount of work they've done justifies. I don't see how this situation is any different from a student going through the teacher's desk or hacking into a computer to obtain a test beforehand. They know the answers ahead of time - that's cheating.</p>
<p>Hepstar - does the teacher require students to show their work, or is he only looking at answers on the tests? If he checks their work (though a guy this lazy probably doesn't), the other students must be picking up at least a little calculus by "studying" this way, but it still feels like cheating to me because not everyone in class enjoys the same advantage.</p>
<p>It would be nice if the teacher was made aware of the situation and created a brand-new midterm and final exam. I wonder if these kids know they'll have to really study for the AP exam if they want to pass?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, other kids who cheat know that this is going on. The whole class knows what's going on, therefore there is another problem. As I said before, I would rather not involve my parents because they will surely report the cheating without hesitation. They don't understand the whole situation. It is my academic career at stake, not theirs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think you have confused "academic career" with "social life."</p>
<p>I'm not even sure why you are quibbling about this. You need to do the right thing. And you know what that is.</p>
<p>It would be great if he just changed the test, all but one or two answers. He would know who was cheating by tracking the kids who had the old answers. I hope you realize that the friendships you have now will be 90% gone when you go to college. What's happening now will affect your future, especially if there is a curve in the class. Social pressures are really hard sometimes, but try to keep your eye on the big picture. These kids are wrong, and they are directly affecting you, at the very least in rank.</p>
<p>There is a serious problem here that people are circling around: It's not just the kids who are cheating (and that's what it is). It's the teacher, and apparently other teachers in this system, and possibly the administrators, too. The teacher is too lazy to come up with an educationally appropriate testing practice, one that encourages the kids to learn the material. He probably knows that old tests are in circulation. Students do well, they're happy, their parents are happy, he's happy. If some students don't want to go along, that's fine for them, it's their choice, not his problem. From the OP's description, it looks like other teachers have the same policy. I would bet that there's little or no tracking of the relationship between classroom performance and AP test (or other standardized test) performance. The school administration is likely silently complicit in this, or negligent.</p>
<p>I sympathize a lot with the OP. I would not want to lose my friends, either (and I think she's right that will happen), and especially not in a quixotic effort to change something those in power are perfectly comfortable with. Good luck. I think I would take my lumps in the class, hope it wouldn't affect my college applications too much, wait until the end of the year, and write a letter to the principal and school board. That clearly would not satisfy the West Point honor code, but it would make me feel that I had done the right thing by my community.</p>
<p>I am definitely a whistle-blower, fight-for-truth-and-justice type of person. But this situation just has too many red flags for me to advocate speaking up.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You don't know for sure the teacher's position on the use of his old tests, ie. whether he would consider it cheating. He hasn't made a statement about it. I would agree that unless he's a total idiot, he has to have at least considered the possibility that the old tests are floating around and could be used in this way. Therefore, you can probably assume he either doesn't care or if he does, he's too lazy to do anything about it which is about the same as not caring. </p></li>
<li><p>If the teacher is egotistical enough to call himself a great teacher, then he will likely be blinded by ego concerns if you were to bring this up to him. If he really didn't know the "cheating" is going on and it does bother him when he finds out, then he will feel stupid. He will react by lashing out at you so as to protect his image. He could react by claiming that of course he knows, there's no problem and in fact you're a fool for worrying about it and for not availing yourself of the tests yourself. Or, due to an insecurity about his ability as an instructor, he may be quite willingingly deceiving himself about how well the students are doing because it gratifies him. If you expose the test situation, you will be throwing the ugly truth about himself in his face. He will not respond well to that. Your grade could go even lower.</p></li>
<li><p>It seems that support among administrators may not be forthcoming either, based on the fact that the GC discovered there was a problem and didn't act. So, you may be left hanging out to dry all alone on this. If so, what will you accomplish? If the teacher doesn't care, and the administration is unlikely to support you, you won't effect change, and you may do yourself serious damage in the process.</p></li>
<li><p>What to do? Why not wait a while and see how things play out? First, take time to be abolutely sure the "cheaters" really are just copying and not working through the problems. Second, see if anything happens to cause the teacher to catch on himself. Later, if you feel that it is the right and ethical thing to do to speak up, and it well may be, then perhaps the timing will be better a few months from now. If these friends do indeed do poorly on their AP test, then when you speak up you will be armed with the proof of the disparity between their demonstrated knowledge and their class grade, and your case will be more credible. But you had better do very very welll yourself to prove your point, so divert your anger and energy into studying! If the valedictorian kid isn't cheating, team up with him to work hard. Are you a senior? If so, I recommend you at least wait until all college applications and recommendations are submitted and processed. Closer to the end of the year, you may care less about the opinions of these friends.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Ddin't see the above before posting mine. JHS said it better than me. I agree.</p>