I need the APs

I apologize if this is the wrong place to put this thread. Kinda new around here and looking to get into Harvard. So anyways, to get into Harvard, it’s a known fact that some AP classes should be taken (or IB but my school doesn’t have any). Now I’m in a dilemma here. It’s a pretty small school, so AP teachers also teach other courses. Now I took a course this year that was taught by an AP teacher, and got in trouble with her. Not only that, but every teacher in the school knows how a “troublemaker” I am. Now, does this ruin my chances of getting into any AP classes next year?

First off, colleges judge you in the context of your high school. If your high school does not offer any AP courses, Admissions doest not hold that against you or expect you to self-study for AP classes on your own. However, if your high school offers a gazillion AP’s, colleges expect you to have taken a fair number of them. If your high school only offers a few AP’s, colleges do expect you to have taken a few of them.

Now to your specific issue: I would have a conversation with your guidance counselor as they might be able to “smooth over” your chances of getting into an AP class next year. If that doesn’t work, then yes, I would say a lack of AP classes next year would adversely effect your chances at Harvard and most selective colleges – especially if other competitive students at your high school are taking AP courses. That’s because when you apply to college your GC must rate the rigor of your program. If other student’s at your high school have taken more AP’s, your GC will usually give them a more demanding rating than you. So go talk with your GC now! You may have to make amends with the teacher you got in trouble with, but generally speaking most teachers are fair minded people. So, give it a try. What have you got to loose?

@gibby If all else fails, would taking the same courses, and even more, as self-study help?

^^ It’s difficult to say. Colleges might question why you self-studied for an AP course that was also offered at your high school and would look to your GC for an answer. So self studying for the same courses would probably raise a bunch of red flags. Go talk with your GC!

Not really. Harvard wants to see what the student does throughout the year, not just on AP tests. In fact, your official AP scores don’t go to the admissions folks but rather the registrar folks, and are looked at for purposes of guiding you to the right level of courses, not for admissions decisions. Taking a lower level of the course won’t suffice either, because your transcript will not reflect the highest rigor of courses available at your school.

So the only way for the admissions committee to see concretely that you have successfully completed the work of an AP course is to officially take the course.

@notjoe Well, that may be an issue. So you mean that the admission committee can’t see my self-studied courses, even if I listed them?

College applications are quaint in a way – Admissions Officers trust what a student writes down on the Common Application is the absolute truth. For example, a student can write down any EC they wish and an Admissions Officer will take them at their word. Ditto with awards and AP test scores. The Common Application asks students to self-report AP test scores because as @notjoe said, the College Board will only send AP test scores to a registrar’s office, so Admissions never sees AP test scores. They only see AP test CLASSES that appear on a high school transcript. So, there’s no way an AO can verify you self-studied for an AP test. That said, many colleges, including Harvard, have disclaimers like this one

And, part of an AO’s job is to verify every admitted student’s’ application over the summer by comparing the high school’s final transcript with a student’s application to make sure the student hasn’t told any fibs. Every year, there is at least one CC poster who’s application has been rescinded by a college.

Actually, not so difficult.

Last year, I went to an Exploring College Options event, which had reps from Harvard, Stanford, Penn, Duke, and Georgetown, among others. During the Q&A, someone asked, “What do you think of applicants who self-study for additional AP’s over and above the AP classes they take?” One rep responded, “Please don’t do that. We’re not impressed by that.” The other reps all nodded.

Now if you want to self study a course not offered because you are interested in the subject and/or you want to potentially earn additional college credit, that’s fine, not with the goal of impressing colleges. Let’s be honest - there are a few AP courses that a student with a couple of weeks of planning can cram and ace the test, and colleges are well aware of that.

@gibby Funny though, it’s not as if my high school offers a lot of AP courses. In fact, 0 are offered in freshman year, 0 are offered in sophomore year, 2 are offered in junior year, and 4 are offered in senior year. I’ll try to make friends with the teacher, but I’m not convinced that he’ll accept it. A question for you though, if I do eventually self-study my courses, is there a way to make a dual-enrollment with the community college and make it count toward my GPA?

You can’t list it as a class, because, well, it’s not a class. You could list it as an EC, but schools like Harvard are really looking for applicants who have more depth than simply academics.

Oh, and don’t post the HS you attend; it’s called College Confidential for a reason. I’ve edited that part out.

If you do community college dual enrollment, then you should receive grades and a transcript for your college work, whether on your high school transcript, or separately from the college. Then Harvard will see that you completed advanced work.

@notjoe Would that be better than taking Self-Study courses?

This isn’t directly related to the AP question but the nature of the “trouble” you caused might be revealed in recommendations. Consider if there is a way to make amends. That might help you get into the AP classes and protect your recommendations.

@HarvardDream101 ,

Yes. As long as the courses taken at the post-secondary school are at college level, this will demonstrate a high degree of rigor in one’s high school career. That is to be preferred over self-studt. Make sure thar, if you do that, it’s documented on your high school transcript, or that you get the college to generate a transcript. Also, d out accidentally matriculate at the college.