<p>shack!!!!!</p>
<p>Fidty....lmao</p>
<p>Ok there is only one solution. We need to hold a CC rally somewhere noticable and hold up really noticable signs to get people to notice us. Okay, if that does not work, plan b is coming back here and posting and venting about it some more. LET'S MOVE!</p>
<p>I agree with sam lee's point about people putting blame on everything from race to econ-status when it comes to low academic performance.</p>
<p>just a week ago I asked my cousin(who is attending one of the best universities in china) why couldnt you get any scholarships for your school? he replied that the scholarships are all taken by people from rural parts of china. now. chinese institutions rarely cares that you came from a poorer part of china, scholarships are given purely based on merit (in this case the scores on the university entrance exams) why is it that most of the top scores are taken by people that came from areas where even the basic things in life that we'd take for granted are rarely availble? in rural parts of china where even text bookseven textbooks and proper schooling facilities are rare.
now these are not the majority of chinese population but still they occupy a good amount of the top spots in top universities. my cousin's parents commented on the determination of few that they've met, they worked toward their goal with a single mindset " get into university or stay poor"</p>
<p>while I'm in favor of AA's ideal of promoting equality and giving a chance to those that had disadvantages in school( I dont agree that anyone should be holding such a mindset) but AA shouldnt be practiced to a degree where it has become an excuse, and keeping out those that have worked as hard or harder than the minorities.</p>
<p>AA has been studied to death and the results indicate two things that should effect your attitude: 1) eliminating it would have a negligible effect on any other group's chances of admission to an elite college, and 2) graduates who were admitted as part of an AA hook, on the whole, go on to comparable careers and achievements as their non-AA counterparts -- with a couple of exceptions: the AA graduates tend to participate in their local community and contribute to charitable organizations more than their non-AA colleagues.</p>
<p>astrife, AP government isn't enough to make you well informed on all topics.</p>
<p>The AA thing is tired, so let me address another thing you wrote. Sure, retired parents have lots of assets. But retired parents also have a lot of those assets protected. Age of parent is an important factor in the formulas used to calculate ability to pay. </p>
<p>I'm not sure how important the point was in the first place, but I wanted to address a fallacy in your assertion that those assets would be fully considered when calculating aid.</p>
<p>Finally, I would point out that many institutions also give special consideration to the very groups people are decrying as unfairly neglected here. It may not be called "Affirmative Action" but it's there. For example, before U of Michigan had to change its points system, students of low socio-economic status were given the exact same point boost as underrepresented minorities (and to clarify, you could get the boost for one or the other, not both, so poor minorities didn't get a double boost).</p>
<p>I think a lot of people here don't know what its like in poor, unfunded high-schools. People worry more about their lives then about their grades. I didn't go to one of these, but my teacher taught at a school were random locker searches would yield guns 3/4 of the time, and if you were caught with a gun they'd make you go home, but you could come back the next day.</p>
<p>There's A LOT of places like this, and the people who attend these schools are mostly minorities. Its for situations like this that AA benefits students. Sure, its easy to complain about the rich hispanic who used his background as a hook, but its also easy to overlook the poor black student who wouldn't have had the grades for a good college education if people hadn't taken into account her situation. AA hurts people, but it helps people too. IMO it does more good than bad.</p>
<p>I think that some of the early repliers here are operating under false assumptions. Race "ain't what it used to be" (as an admissions factor). An AA student from a wealthy, educated, professional AA family with no significant obstacles or hardships facing that particular student in his or her lifetime to date (what a mouthful!) -- will not be given "preferential treatment" based on ECONOMIC circumstances, or other social obstacles/lack of opportunity. In a case like that, ethnicity would not necessarily be considered a "special" factor in <em>weighting</em> that applicant's academic qualifications over those of a similar Caucasian or Asian family. It would be more than likely that ethnicity would be considered in composing a varied class -- meaning that such a candidate would only be "preferred" if placed against an equally qualified non-minority of the same region (& possibly school) AND if more balance was being sought in freshman class composition.</p>
<p>Recently, an AA graduate from our private h.s., who was a major star academically & leadership wise, with impressive e.c.'s, was waitlisted at Stanford. Her stats were high and she had a ton of qualities supporting her app. But Stanford, like HYP, receives a huge # of stellar candidates of all races, & is located in a state & region with an extraordinarily diverse student population. S likes to serve that State. By waitlisting her, S was saying that she was definitely qualified, but that there were some other candidates (including undoubtedly AA's) who S considered an even better fit for their school than her. Many aspects & traits are evaluated by an adcom when defining fit of an applicant & balance within an incoming class.</p>
<p>Further, keep in mind that when you meet or hear of a minority who seems to be just as advantaged as most non-URM's are, you do not necessarily know the background of the story. Many such minorities have had to overcome obstacles of social acceptance within their own communities & the community of assimilation. In some cases, the student may be commuting a great distance to go to an outstanding private school, & further had to work especially hard to meet admission standards for such a private h.s. -- despite doing quite well once admitted. If that student is a rarity in that h.s., he or she may have struggled with identity and inclusion while also achieving. I've known of cases also where a minority "looks" just so middle-class or even upper middle-class, but I've later found out that in order to afford a computer or decent clothes or commute fare, the student had to work part time while also managing to accomplish at the same level as students who are not employed.</p>
<p>But I must emphasize that the factor of "overcoming obstacles" is by no means limited to race or ethnicity. An underprivileged non-URM (a very poor, recently immigrated Asian, esp. from an underrepresented area in Asia; or a Caucasian from a lower economic class family) will or may also be considered to have overcome obstacles. Last year's EA threads on CC, for the Ivies, prove this.</p>
<p>I have to agree with epiphany.</p>
<p>One cannot associate race with being poor. Yes true, that some minorities are worse off than Whites, (but NOT Asians, yes Asians are everywhere in colleges, but that doesnt mean we didn't over come our obstacles). Race should not be taken into consideration in college admission, but economic difficulties definately should. Being black, hispanic, and native american, does NOT mean being poor or having limited opportunities. Yes, racism still exist, but it's not rampant enough to use in college admission. Being poor, and having obstacles (that some associate with minorities, which is not valid, any one from ANY race could have obstacles), i believe should be a factor. I, myself grew up from a poor family. I never had a tutor in my life because my family was never able to afford it. My SAT score, depended solely on my own knowledge and preparations, while others depended on that 2000 dollar SAT course. What the colleges need to see is economic difficulties, and not race.</p>
<p>Some parents are paying upwards of $30K for a PG year at boarding schools to boost their offsrings' chances of getting into top tier schools. (There are about 8 PGs at D's school - - not an insignif number at a small school.</p>
<p>Considering the small number of URM students at most competive schools, I don't understand why URM admissions pref causes such a controversy. </p>
<p>There are all sorts of prefs: geog, legacy, athletic, gender, etc. </p>
<p>Boys get merit $ at Sarah Lawr, Wheaton and Goucher w/ scores that wouldn't get them in the door if they were girls. No one complains. Same is true if you apply from VT or NC, instead or NY or CT. </p>
<p>No one is entitled to admission and the objectively better (ie: best numbers - which could, of course, be as much the result of high-priced tutoring than true ability) candidate is often rejected in favor of someone who offers something the school wants. That something could be playing the french horn, throwing a mean pot, having a terrific jump shot, residing in WY or - - God forbid - - being of color.</p>
<p>The URM pop at many LACs is around 5%, so you're belly-aching about a whopping 100 students (assuming none of them qualified for other prefs) at a school of 2000, or 25 seats each year - - a drop in the bucket compared to all the other prefs, games and scams.</p>
<p>in my school for example there are students who are half urms and half white, i know of two students applying to ivy leagues, both half hispanic, but they both get bs in spanish, are whiter than white, and live in a rich suburban enviroment, in my opinion there is no reason why they should get a leg up since they have been offered exactly what i have been and have never been discriminated, the fact that they are considered URMS and get boosts is upsetting to me, no i am not against urms getting an advantage, however i feel these two students are abusing the status</p>
<p>whoa whoa guys...lets step back for a moment. The affect of AA in elite colleges have been grossy exaggerated. There are PLENTY of extremely qualified hispanics and blacks who apply to HYP and others every year and get in. They are not all underqualified applicants. I, myself, am not URM and I see the advantages of having a diverse student population. I wouldn't want to go to a school that was 99% white. That being said, colleges still will NOT accept a URM over a white or asian applicant based on race alone unless their stats were extremely extremely close. Overall I think AA doesn't even play that much of a role in elite schools...there are just that many great applicants.</p>
<p>How is what you describe any diff than affluent parents using their considerable financial resources to boost their kids' chances of getting into top schools?</p>
<p>If a school is desperte for diversity, I guess half-White Hispanic kids are somewhat diverse - - half a loaf is better than none. </p>
<p>Everyone knows someone who's abusing the system somehow. A friend's father took a sabbatical in Nebraska so his kids could obtain a geog pref. It worked, both kids attended Ivies. The fact that it was a scam doesn't diminish the importance of geog diversity, it just make the father a bit of a jerk. </p>
<p>Face it, parents will do/pay just about anything to get give their kids the advantage - -and advantage is always at someone else's expense. If I could buy D's way into Duke (a school notorious for taking parent $) I would, even if it meant depriving some "deserving" applicant of a seat. </p>
<p>People get to the front of the line a lot of different ways, with money, not AA or URM status, being the most common. So again, who cares if 2 half-Hispanic kids in your school got a break (and maybe it was playing the french horn, as much and being half-Latino, that gave them the edge). </p>
<p>You care about fairness? Eliminate ED and all paid test prep, then weight GPAs of kids from low income zip codes (to balance for adversity). How's that for fair?</p>
<p>Clearly many of you don't understand the positive gravity that AA has had in this country.</p>
<p>There are a lot of crybabies on this thread. All of you kids who are headed for Ivy schools or other highly selective schools are lucky to have the leisure to sit around and whine on your computers. Whatver small advantage minority kids get, it is nothing compared to the handicaps they face. And most schools have minority populations of well under 10%, and a vast majority of students with family incomes over $100K. You have no idea how privileged you are.</p>
<p>Oh my God</p>
<p>I almost have tears coming down my face
So much misunderstanding on this message board. </p>
<p>I am a black male from South Central Los Angeles and before I matriculated to Princeton I was a frequent contributor to CC. There have been AA threads forever but never as blatantly racist or ignorant as this. I have read contributors on this thread implying that overall Blacks were lazy and that they lack the aptitude (based on SAT score and ignoring all other facets of the application) for selective colleges.</p>
<p>Some of the supporters of AA support it with a consdescending, paternalistic attitude which, however well-intentioned, is incorrect.
Hardly any AA opponents have given true weight to the fact that public inner city schools rarely prepare their students (test prep and high school curriculum) for the SAT. Once these supposed inferior students enter these selective schools, 95 percent (as stated before) graduate. </p>
<p>Relying on personal experience with the few minorities you may know is an unreliable indicator of the status of educational opportunity. There are MILLIONS of minorities in the public school system. In any experiment, a scientist would never make a sweeping judgment on 1 million organisms based on analyzing 5 or 6 of them. I don't think that the individuals who have criticized AA have looked at the data concerning AA and the ever-widening education gap in this country. Many of you on this board will soon be going to the best universities in the world (hopefully i'll see some of you intelligent folks at Pton :)) and I hope that you definitely do your reading (acquiring a more in-depth view of public policy and race-relations) before you step on your respective campuses.</p>
<p>I am not very surprised it has come to this because the comments on this board overall reflect the racist nature of American society (although to be fair, most of you haven't studied race-relations and are most likely basing your judgment on your parents) and the continuation of white supremacist practices (as in whites and other elite denying minorities educational and economic opportunities, not the KKK red-neck version of white supremacy).</p>
<p>i support economic diversity as a factor for admissions...but i am come from a wealthy suburb where there are minorities many of whom are children of government employees and they simply are not discriminated against nor do they have less opprotunities academically</p>
<p>Amen.</p>
<p>I love how these middle-to-upper class Caucasian kids are whining. They live a comfortable life and have the nerve to assume a blatantly racist and ignorant attitude. Are you kids really going to be attending Ivy League-caliber schools? For all of the 4.0s and 2400s, it seems like some of you are sorely lacking in other areas. I find it appalling that educated people like yourselves are really not so educated. Your parents exhibit an elitist attitude, which you clearly assume-you whine about how "easy" many minorities have it. Why don't you go to NY, Chicago or Boston and see how "easy" they have it? How would you have fared if you came from a broken home and attended a school with over 1000 kids with lackluster resources and a shortage of capable teachers?</p>
<p>The subtle (and sometimes not so subtle, as in this thread) tone implying that blacks are "lazy" or even less intelligent is abhorrent. SAT scores are portrayed as being the ultimate measure of someone on this board, whether people have the balls to admit it; this is said. Many blacks and other minorities are underpriveleged due to modern socio-economic conditions, and how they perform on a test which depends on how well a student knows the test and how good a person's education was is irrelevant.</p>
<p>I am a middle-class, Caucasian male, but I am fully aware of the hardships that many face-I am not completely provincial as some here are as it pertains to college admissions. </p>
<p>Common sense and awareness are beautiful things-get to know them. The next time you decide to go on a tirade while sitting in your air-conditioned, private school classroom with 15 kids, about how you have it so rough, remember there are kids who have an alcoholic, deadbeat father and need to take care of their multiple siblings.</p>
<p>Way to completely miss the whole point of AA and this debate.</p>
<p>Once you cited a group of minorities living in a wealthy suburb and having gov't employees for parents, your argument deconstructed itself. The fact of the matter is minorities largely predominate from the lower class and deal with exponentially greater (in both number and difficulty) problems than many privileged, upper class kids that post here. Citing an example of economic and political equality or superiority in minorities only supports my point.</p>
<p>Sitting in your comfy suburbs you have no idea of what urban school systems are like. No APs at all. No honors program. No EC to put on your fancy resume because the schools do not have Ec's and do not have sports. Maybe one guidance counselor for hundreds of kids. About half of your schoolmates drop out before graduating.Your parents can't help you with your apps because they have no clue, they didn't even finish high school. You can't visit any schools except really local ones, becuase you can't afford the travel.You have a part time job that you NEED - no possibility of an allowance from parents. Sure you get the app fee waived for colleges because you're poor, but did you know you only get four fee waivers????
And noqw in what WAY ARE MINORITY KIDS GETTING AN ADVANTAGE OVER YOU??? please EXPLAIN.......</p>
<p>Haha. I love how you show your biases against the supposedly bias readers of this forum, with "Sitting in your comfy suburbs you have no idea of what urban school systems are like." You are the bias one. You are the one that discriminates. Anyway...</p>
<p>The huge fallacy with your argument is that you say poor people should get better chances than rich kids, when you say "No APs at all. No honors program. No EC to put on your fancy resume because the schools do not have Ec's and do not have sports."</p>
<p>**You obviously can't read this forum. Nobody has a problem against helping poor kids. They have a problem with helping BLACK/MINORITY (except Asian) kids specifically because they are black/minority. Why should a rich black kid get better treatment than a rich white kid? Or a poor black kid over a poor white one? </p>
<p>You again have showed us you are irrelevant to the discussion because you make the assumption that all black kids are poor, and all white kids are rich. Again, bias. Again, lies. ** </p>
<p>You are obviously SO blinded by your belief that you disregard BASIC facts. It is an insult to the intelligence of many readers to be forced to see someone claim all blacks are poor, and all whites are rich. Not only is that erroneous, but it is racist.</p>