<p>And a growing number of affluent whites... </p>
<p>Hint: Widening gap between the rich and the poor, in general.</p>
<p>Again, very true.</p>
<p>Ah ah ah... let's not stereotype now people...</p>
<p>who is stereotyping?</p>
<p>I've got to restrain myself when I say this...but this post is absolutely ridiculous. Afirmative action does not always serve its original purpose, but it does a GOOD job for the most part. A LARGE portion of the African American, Hispanic, and Native American population do not have the privilege the middle and even lower class white citizens have. Culturally, education is not prioritized and the society around them enforces that. I think what I say is valid because as a minority (asian) myself, afirmative action does not treat me fairly. Asians receive no advantage over white applicants while other minority groups do. Yet, do you see me complain about how UNFAIR afirmative action is? Asians began immigrating to America much later than the Europeans, Hispanics, Africans, and etc. Still most Asians thrive, purely through effort. I cannot say this for African Americans because of their slave history, but Hispanics should theoretically be as "successful" as Asians since they had arrived earlier. Asians were forced into servitude (though not slavery) as many minorities have, but here we are, the largest percentage of minorities repping the top notch universities. If afirmative action were to be removed, I still say minority students be evaluated more carefully based on their educational environment.</p>
<p>Its funny to see asian CC kids who say that they are at a disadvantage in applying to elite schools. The only reason why they'd be at a disadvantage is if they resemble the "stereotypical" asian applicant which colleges receive thousands of apps from which all look the same with the same activities: math, math, classical music, piano, violin, math club, another math club, no athletics, and no "unique activities".</p>
<p>Colleges want students who break out of the mold of their parents, not followers in the crowd. I think if you were an "untypical" asian applicant with "special activities" that you'd have a much better chance since youre distinguisihing yourself from the pool. You're "rare".</p>
<p>Heck, I'd guess that many asian applicants on CC resemble the stereotype so that's why many are so critical of AA since they know they have a lesser chance of getting in anyway.</p>
<p>LOL DiamondT! So true!</p>
<p>I generally don't like to get involved in these kinds of threads, because it's a very sensitive issue, but I really feel that each student applying should be given a blind number assigned to him or her, and race should not be asked on the applications. That's the best way to see that nobody is discriminated against. </p>
<p>All of you posters who are talking about privileged white kids are missing a very important point. There are impoverished areas where whites, blacks and latino's live - sometimes in the same community - and have the same challenges and often inferior educations and opportunities, and guess which kids get the short end of the stick? </p>
<p>You should read some books and articles by Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson to get another viewpoint on this. There are many black people who find AA offensive, and Rev. Peterson is one of them.</p>
<p>h2Online: are you asian?? I agree with DiamondT, asians should try to distinguish themselved with more unique activities...</p>
<p>I had a recent graduate of William and Mary break down the situation about AA. Whites have their own form of AA, it's just not called that. it is called Legacy and Financial status. 90+% of legacies at a top tier schools are white and 95% of those students who can pay their full tuition are white. At these top colleges, Legacy status receives as much if not more attention then minority status. and while most top-teir admissions are need-blind, the fact remains that 40+% of admits to Duke each year can pay their full weight. So there, people, is white AA. Got them................</p>
<p>That being said,
I am black and AA makes me a little sick. I find myself equal if not better then most white people at my school. but here is where i realize AA will help me in admissions. My family is poor, and since the 9th grade i have had a job where i have worked 20+ hrs a week. During sophomore year(and this year) i had two jobs because the situation was bad. I have not had enough time to give to my studies because i prefer that my family has heat. I wasn't able to pay for SAT prep. Still i have a 3.6gpa/1970sat because i work my butt off. And though i don't have the grades, ad-coms know i am smart because i have scored 5s on all 4 of my APs. If AA will help get me boost so that i can be on level with the "white, both lawyer parents, 4.0/2390sat, never had a job peer," then so be it because i know if i didn't have adult worries since the 9th grade, i would be my peer.
why AA makes me sick is people benefit because they are a certain color. i prefer, as in my case, that people benefit because of their finincial status, b/c anyone can be poor, regardless of color. Blacks and hispanics don't need help b/c of their color, b/c that says they are inferior. If anything, poor kids are the disadvantaged ones, whether black, white, hispanic or azn. </p>
<p>And i am writing a thesis on this for admissions offices accross the country.
what do u think?????????????????</p>
<p>p.s.
I talked with head of Admissions at Duke, and he said, "we get equal level candidates, then we start considering tip-factors. Tip-factors are "Legacy, minority, financial status, regional area, etc," but first and foremost, this kids are about equal before we start considering tip-factors." so there you go.............................................................</p>
<p>I think you put that very eloquently. </p>
<p>I am white, and personally have no problem with AA in theory, but I think it should be based on socio economic indicators as opposed to race. When I was younger I thought it was unfair, until I began to realize the inherent advantages I had, as being the child of wealthy graduate school educated parents.</p>
<p>AA = bullcrap</p>
<p>Bryan Nance- Director of Minority Recruitment at MIT has an article on his blog: 99 Problems, but Admissions isn't one states the following:</p>
<p>[ul]
[li]DO NOT EVER BELIEVE THAT IF YOU ARE A STUDENT OF COLOR THAT YOU WILL BE ADMITTED SOLELY BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]If you are not a student of color don't fall into the trap of thinking you won't be admitted because of Affirmative Action. </p>[/li]
<p>[li]If you are admitted, it will be because of merit. If not, it wasn't because someone else took your spot.</p>[/li]
<p>[/ul]</p>
<p>People tend to forget that admissions at selective schools are a holistic process where one is evaluated in context of what they bring to the table. </p>
<p>At schools where almost 40% of the anincoming class is admitted on some kind of "affirmative action" (legacy, developmental admits, urms, athletes) nothing draws more fire than race.</p>
<p>Blacks are evaluated in the pool of other black candidates, asians are evaluated in the pool of other candidates, internationals are evaluated in the pool if international applicants as a whole.</p>
<p>It would never serve a school to admit anyone who is not capable of doing the work and therefore they do not accept any student who they think would not be successful at their school.</p>
<p>Hey Runawa, when you talked to the Duke guy about financial status being a tip factor, which way did he mean it?</p>
<p>Did he mean high income full pay ability was a tip, or poor background was tip? Or possibly both, screwing the middle class?</p>
<p>I believe that Affirmative Action was started for good reasons but took a turn for the worse. All things considered, at the end of the day, it's a lot easier to distinguish between different races as opposed to socioeconomic factors. Colleges don't want the hassle of figuring out how much income deserves how much merit. Then you have to consider sibling dependancy, loans, number of parents at home etc and it gets really confusing. Imagine placing all that in the context of everything including grades, sats, essays and the adcoms has a heck of a lot of work in front of them. Its simply a lot easier to say that the person who has blue skin and has historically been discriminated against deserves the spot more than the kid with the green skin who is generally well off. Its not fair at all but its a lot easier for the adcoms and that is the current state of affairs.</p>
<p>Well, it is not fair in some cases, but generally it is still applicable. I completely, 100% agree that socioeconomic status should be the factor considered in this manner, but the problem is that the majority of minorities are on the lower end of the class structure. Of course there are exceptions, but AA is such a boost to under-priveleged minorities in urban areas, that you cannot abolish it.</p>
<p>I also think to label racism and discrimination as archaic and no longer present is ignorant of the truth. Racial prejudice is still rampant in this country, even though it may not be evident.</p>
<p>"Its funny to see asian CC kids who say that they are at a disadvantage in applying to elite schools. The only reason why they'd be at a disadvantage is if they resemble the "stereotypical" asian applicant which colleges receive thousands of apps from which all look the same with the same activities: math, math, classical music, piano, violin, math club, another math club, no athletics, and no "unique activities".
Colleges want students who break out of the mold of their parents, not followers in the crowd. I think if you were an "untypical" asian applicant with "special activities" that you'd have a much better chance since youre distinguisihing yourself from the pool. You're "rare"."</p>
<ul>
<li>DiamondT, since you seem to know all about the "stereotypical Asian applicant", I guess you could be classified as the "stereotypical elitist boarding school pretend-to-know-it-all." The fact is, Asian applicants are at a disadvantage when applying to top universities. Since when is it bad to have high test scores, play instruments, and be a part of the math club? Why should any Asian applicant have to spurn engaging in the activities I mentioned above just so they can be atypical? That is absolutely ridiculous. The fact that you have even established a "stereotypical" Asian applicant is actually a testament to the large number of extremely qualified Asian applicants to top universities across the country. As an Asian American currently enrolled in the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, I am glad I didn't have to choose my EC's in accordance to what other "stereotypical Asians" chose to partake in. No Asian American applicant should ever have to compare him/herself to other Asian American applicants during the admissions process. If someone truly enjoys doing math and playing Beethoven sonatas, so be it. You have no right to tell people what is typical and what is atypical.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>An excerpt from a post by DiamondT after getting into Stanford EA:</p>
<p>"I feel great. Remember YOUR STATS DONT GET YOU INTO HYPS, YOUR PASSION DOES. If you don't listen then watch yourself get rejected with your oh so high 2400." -DiamondT</p>
<ul>
<li>I love the fact that you are so insecure that you feel the need to insult people who are more intelligent and score higher on standardized tests. Hahahahaha, it is quite hilarious that you got into Stanford. Do you think the fact that your mommy and daddy paid for you to go to Philips Exeter had anything to do with it?</li>
</ul>
<p>^^pwned.....</p>
<p>I am white and middle class going to public with several siblings, AA is my nemisis. With that being said, I am a backer of AA. Discrimination still exists in our country (US), and something must be done to combat it. The only way to do this is to start at the grassroots level of education, housing, etc. Personally, I think much more should be done in terms of the public education system, where I live at least. There is a black school system and a white school system. The black school system has two schools with 3000 kids each and the white school system has 1200 in 6 different schools and every pupil has a laptop. This is exactly what AA is trying to fix.</p>
<p>I'm jealous of my friend, who has had a lot more (financial) opportunities than I have, whose parents are both twice as educated as mine, and we have the same stats, but as soon as any colleges see the Native American box checked off, to hell with the white girl.</p>
<p>Okay, I don't know if that will actually happen, and I'm not saying I'm against AA, I just think that AA, if it doesn't already, should focus a whole lot more on income/area/the whole picture.</p>
<p>But I don't know! This is such a touchy subject that I'm afraid to reply.</p>