I never knew minorities had such an advantage until I read...

Applying to College
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<p>One should not start a sentence with a conjuction such as the word "and." In addition, it is incorrect to capitalize each letter of the word "very" in a sentence. It is incorrect to put a comma after the word race because the independent clause is followed by a simple predicate. That sentence is followed by a run-on followed by a fragment.</p>

<p>You see, I can criticize internet grammar and typos like a pompous ass as well, you ignorant boob.
Go ahead and tell me that an affluent black man going to an elite private boarding school who's lazier than hell and gets a 1100 SAT gets accepted over a low income white student who studied his ass off and got a 1500 is fair. Because if affirmative action creates an injustice to even a single individual, it should be condemned. We should not replace one unfair system with another.</p>

122

<p>Only, it isn't incorrect to begin a sentence with a conjuction outside of formal writing and it is gaining acceptance there as well. Capitalization is not used for emphasis in formal writing, but this is informal. The sentence after the one that mentions race is not a run-on. The sentence after that one is not a fragment. </p>

<p>This could go back and forth all day. I only mentioned your grammar because it was very ironic that you would make such a basic mistake while criticizing my intelligence.</p>

<p>A student's effort is apparent outside of his SAT scores. This is a poor analogy because it only gives us one input into the much more complicated system that colleges use to guide their admissions process.</p>

<p>An unfair system should always be replaced by a less unfair system if that is the only possibility.</p>

<p>Ex. Let's say there were a group of people that were blue. It'd be unfair to kill all these people. It would also be unfair to discriminate against these people in non-corporal ways. The second system should replace the first.</p>

123

<p>"It makes it easier to draw districts separating students by race, and helps justify it as well." I am 100% certain that the comma in this sentence is used incorrectly. Thusly, do not even try to begin to pretend that you're using correct grammar on internet forums when I was quite obviously being satirical to show I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, I feel affirmative action rather increases white resentment towards blacks, especially republicans. Affirmative action is really a deep ideological splitter rather than some sort of anti-segregation force. Affirmative action further makes assumptions, distinctions, and, as commonly seen on collegeboard in particular, "rankings" of the races. It further divides people, causes resentment and hostile arguements, and generally winds up making all races- including both blacks and whites- to feel inferior.</p>

124

<p>I, am, 100%, certain, that, I, did, not, dispute, that, comma, either. I don't really believe you were being at all satirical (See: "This is not hyperbole."), but I have no interest in carrying this argument.</p>

<p>You are still ignoring my argument. AA is appropriate, but it cannot be phased out until integration solves the problem at it's most basic and most level. AA, currently, treats the symptoms but does not provide the cure. I never claimed that AA was anti-segregation. Is said it exists because of segregation. I then went on to say that reducing segregation would help diminish acheivement gaps and therefore wipe out AA. Take that as you will, I've said enough in other posts to back that up if you're willing to do your own google search. I have nothing more to contribute to this topic, half of these people are willfully ignorant.</p>

125

<p>In some circumstances, the disadvantaged do deserve a leg up; however it would make a whole lot more sense to base this on socioeconomic circumstances rather than race. I know of several economically disadvantaged white students who could have benefitted from some admissions/financial aid assistance, but were given none. On the other hand, I know of several students at my (expensive private) school whose families are quite wealthy, and who have had every advantage imaginable to a high school student, and yet can check the box for URM status on their college applications. It seems to me that it would make far more sense to acknowledge those who have faced more of a challenge during their high school years rather than those who happen to fall into the right skin color classification.</p>

126

<p>
[quote]
In some circumstances, the disadvantaged do deserve a leg up; however it would make a whole lot more sense to base this on socioeconomic circumstances rather than race. I know of several economically disadvantaged white students who could have benefitted from some admissions/financial aid assistance, but were given none. On the other hand, I know of several students at my (expensive private) school whose families are quite wealthy, and who have had every advantage imaginable to a high school student, and yet can check the box for URM status on their college applications.

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<p>couldn't have said it better</p>

127

<p>I have some somewhat unconventional arguments, but consider them - you might find it interesting if nothing else.</p>

<p>Academic powerhouses that are Black, Hispanic, or Native American are RARE. As are nationally ranked athletes, national competition winners, etc. Colleges want a DIVERSE population, which requires a variety of backgrounds, environments, challenges, and accomplishments. </p>

<p>By percentages, whites and Asians are more likely to score a 1500 on the old SAT than blacks are to score a 1300. That being said, a black student who scores a 1450, 1500, 1550 is an incredible student who overcame a lot to make it to where they are - whether that be a poor environment, racism, or social pressures. And believe it or not, most of these students were likely susceptible to a multitude of these prejudices, whether or not as a non-black/Hispanic/N.A. you noticed them.</p>

<p>The other argument is that when we go to college we are learning about the world. This isn't just about biology or medicine or business - it's about learning to work with all kinds of people, meeting all kinds of people, and growing as a person, not just as a brain. If the top colleges just took all the white and Asian kids with the killer SATs & $8,000 summer programs these students would continue to live in the ignorant reality that has consumed them their entire lives. </p>

<p>And lastly, only 1/3 of the students accepted are minorities. At Harvard, for example, this reprents a pool of about 650 students. Now, assuming that all minorities are undeserving (which is completely untrue), YOU would only be affected by affirmative action if you were in the top 650 out of all 18,000 denied students. Therefore:</p>

<p>If all minority students were undeserving, you would only be affected by affirmative action if you were in the top 3% of the denied pool. Given the quality of those rejected by Harvard, this is highly unlikely.</p>

<p>HAVE FUN!</p>

<p>P.S. I am white w/ a 2330 SAT & was rejected early from my 1st choice Ivy school. :)</p>

128

<p>I don't see how some people can complain about AA considering the fact that even with the current system, the most selective colleges in the country are comprised of 60-70% white/caucasian students. And at most, there will be 5-10% hispanic/latino and maybe another 5-10% african american. So yea, there will be an occassional case where it comes down to taking a student that can add more diversity over a white student. But the numbers don't lie, white students still dominate colleges as far as the student bodies go.</p>

129

<p>To the first poster, and whoever agrees with first poster...
take it like a man and stop whining.
I'm not affected by affirmative action. However, I just read mr.gentlemen's post, and correct me if I'm wrong, but he just said "affluent black man". How many affluent black men do you see on a campus?</p>

130

<p>Secondly, if you think us "minorities" have such a nice shot at college, let me tell you this:
I would switch roles in an instant for this application process.</p>

131

<p>Why the hell would you do that?</p>

132

<p>seriously, people....</p>

133

<p>Have you tried competing with the Asian majority mrgentleman? Do you know the standards Universities already set for us? Thinking every Chinese student has to be able to play a string instrument and the piano, have a 4.0 gpa, several awards in math and science, and a 2300 on the SAT.
If you take a white person and compare him with an Asian-American with the same stats, people won't say it, but they know for a fact that the colleges will go after the white guy.
Plus, you know how much crap I have to take from colleges cuz they think that I aint speaka no anglish?
On every application, I have to explain why I didn't take the TOEFL, how I was raised here, and a past resident of Canada, and how I speak, read, and write better than some natives.</p>

134

<p>Asians are definitely set at a higher bar, much higher, because they think we have more advantages (socioeconomic) which is mostly true, but sometimes not.</p>

135

<p>This is quite late, and I apologize for reviving this thread, but I wanted to thank Aeggie for eloquently and maturely defending his/her position. I agree with him/her on this issue, and as an Asian-American, I know one thing is certain: I would never understand what it would be like to be white/black/Latino/Native American. People generalize way too much in touchy topics like this one, and need to understand everyone's points of view before making judgment. Anyways, just wanted to say that, and happy new year!</p>

136

<p>Asians don't have the most socioeconomic advantages. This was surprising to me also: Asians are the poorest minority group. Check the stats on the US gov site.</p>

137

<p>Yea, don't think socioeconomics always determines academic success as well. The TOP girl in our class, Lara, is so above the rest of our entire class. If say we have an extremely hard exam of 80 points, the mean would be 50-60, the high scores in the high 60s/low 70s, then Lara would be all by her ickle self with her 80 (some might get close with a 79 or 78, but only Lara would be the 80). No matter what class it is, if the teacher says the mean was blahblahblah, but the highest score was blahblah, then we'd all chant together "Lara." -_- But she comes from a very poor family, lives in a very small apartment, etc. She's socioeconomically very disadvantaged. But you'd never guess from how brilliantly she stands out. She's a girl I'm confident would be accepted by most of the Ivies. :)
But the facts stand that because Asians are a "model minority" (because of the Asian mindset that education is important?), Asians are often held to a higher standard. Wouldn't this be like expecting all black people to be good at sports or good at dancing/singing? I frankly hate this mindset.</p>

138

<p>No one ever said socioeconomic status determines academic ability ALWAYS. There are exceptions to everything. Giving personal anecdotes proves nothing. I could give a million about some of the richest kids I know who are also the dumbest I know. </p>

<p>But studies repeatedly show a student is more likely to succeed if their parents are wealthy and well educated. And the converse is also true. This may not be true in every case. But generally it fits.</p>

139

<p>
[quote]
Sam Lee</p>

<p>Over there, rarely do people look into teachers and facility..to see how they correlate with students' performance. It's pretty much assumed that academic success correlates mostly/solely with students' commitment to study.

[/quote]
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<p>That is what my parents always tell me -- "It's the person, not the school." I used to complain that I am in one of the worst districts in the state, and I do not have many of the advantages that other schools give their students. But now I know better. </p>

<p>
[quote]
hellloooo</p>

<p>in my school for example there are students who are half urms and half white, i know of two students applying to ivy leagues, both half hispanic, but they both get bs in spanish, are whiter than white, and live in a rich suburban enviroment, in my opinion there is no reason why they should get a leg up since they have been offered exactly what i have been and have never been discriminated, the fact that they are considered URMS and get boosts is upsetting to me, no i am not against urms getting an advantage, however i feel these two students are abusing the status

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<p>A girl in my class did that too, even though she has had many more oppertunities than most people at my school. She didn't get into her top choice school, however. She is generally a very shallow girl that applied to her top-choice school for very shallow reasons, and I think the adcom saw that.</p>

<p>My parents came to this country with nothing, and they built their way up to where we are now, which, admittedly, isn't nearly as good as some of the people on this thread. Still, it's better than nothing, and I am very appreciative of everything I have now. I come from an Eastern European country, but I do not have any "tip factors" because I am white. So, my only choice is to work harder than people who are minorities and have more advantages than me. If the college I'm applying takes someone else over me based on race, I would not want to end up there anyway.</p>

<p>I am mainly angered with how scholarships work because my parents have saved up for my college despite the economic strain it's putting on them, yet we do not get any financial relief for that reason -- we "have the money", so we shouldn't get any. We just wanted a little bit of relief, but in reality, it doesn't matter how well you write in essay contests. It matters how much pity you can get from the judges. But, you know, that's life. The only thing I can do is get a few jobs and hopefully manage to pay my parents back. </p>

<p>If I am against AA, does that make me racist? I know of plenty of black people at my school who detest AA because, according to them, it undermines their accomplishments despite the good intentions behind it. I agree with them, but does that make them racist too? I find it offensive when people on this thread call each other racist. It is a matter of different experiences that create different opinions -- not hate for a particular race. I think we should be more accepting of other people's opinions. It is not the end of the world if someone thinks AA is good and someone else thinks it is bad, and it certainly does not mean that the person with an opposing viewpoint is "retarded".</p>

<p>And college admissions isn't based solely on SAT scores, GPAs, and EC's. It's based on attitude as well. So, you can't automatically assume that a less-qualified black person got into college based on AA -- he/she might have gotten in because he/she had a better attitude than a slightly more qualified white person. HYPS rejects plenty of valedictorians and perfect SAT scores for this reason. Also, the SAT's don't tell you how smart you are. </p>

<p>Furthermore, this whole crazy college admissions process was started by Harvard, who wanted to keep the Jews out of their school. (The Jews were performing better on standardized tests, and they needed an excuse to reject them.) Tell me that isn't discriminatory. </p>

<p><em>hides</em></p>

140

<p>yea, youre right about Harvard. who does that though? it's so wrong.</p>