I tend to second-guess myself...

<p>Hey CCers. I'm caught in something of a dilemma. I plan on applying ED to UPenn; I visited it and absolutely loved it. I've got a triple legacy and my guidance counselor says she thinks I'm golden if I apply ED. Unfortunately, I have a tendency to second-guess myself. Let me explain. The remainder of my list is as follows:</p>

<p>Wesleyan University
Cornell University
Tufts University
Washington University in St. Louis
University of Wisconsin - Madison
University of Rochester
University of Pittsburgh</p>

<p>As much as I love UPenn, I'm coming up with all sorts of reasons to find fault with it. I'm outdoorsy; Penn is a city school. I like lots of open space; Penn, though a campus, does not have much open green space, as far as I could tell. I'm uninterested in business; from what I hear, Wharton dominates Penn's academic scene. Lastly, if I just settled for the honors college at UPitt, I could likely go for almost nothing, whereas enrolling in Penn is going to be reeeeaaaal pricey (I'm not likely to get any financial aid).</p>

<p>I'm staying overnight at Penn in mid-October to see if I still love it.</p>

<p>I need some advice! Do you think I'm just searching for minor faults in an otherwise perfect situation? Am I just afraid of the ED commitment? Or are these reasonable concerns?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>With an 18% selection rate noone is golden for selection. And those are reasonable concerns, particularly the cost.</p>

<p>I’ve spent significant time at both Pitt and Penn. Campus wise, if you like Penn’s campus, I think you’ll like Pitt’s. Although transected by Forbes and Fifth Aves, even compared to Penn having Locust St. closed to traffic, Pitt has a little more greenspace/lawns, and being adjacent to the large, wooded Schenley Park will give you a quick outdoorsy fix. What Pitt doesn’t have is the classic dorm/quad that Penn has for the freshman dorms (which you’d only stay in one year anyway), but Pitt’s other buildings, like the Cathedral of Learning, are actually more impressive, IMO. I think there are more outdoorsy things to do within a shorter drive around Pittsburgh too, especially with it nestled in the mountains (mountains in the east coast sense, not west coast definition), with hiking, whitewater, skiing. Not that it doesn’t exist outside of Philly, but it is a little further away (Poconos). Philly is closer to other cities though, like NYC, DC, and Atlantic City, if that matters to you. Within the two cities, honestly, I think Pittsburgh compares very favorably to Philly for college age things to do, but the city of Pittsburgh doesn’t have as good as restaurants, if that matters, plus I prefer cheesesteaks to Primanti’s. Public transportation is better in Philly, but it is free for Pitt students, which is really a cool program, and combined with Pitt’s [PittArts</a> program](<a href=“http://www.pitt.edu/~pittarts/]PittArts”>PITT ARTS), really give Pitt the edge there. And Pitt is located adjacent to the city’s major museums which are free for Pitt students (Pittsburgh has the nicer natural history museum, Philly has a much better art museum). As far as Parks, with Penn, Fairmont park is really the closest option and it’s a short(ish) walk over the Schuylkill to get on a mile long trail that ends up by the Art Museum that is were the park starts, but it really isn’t much of a park (e.g. macadam jogging trail along the river), IMO, compared to the wooded ones in Pittsburgh (Schenley & Frick) where you can trail run and even mountain bike. As I mentioned, Schenley Park runs into Pitt’s campus. Philly is a more walkable city though, being gridded out and flat. The overall use of the rivers is better in Pittsburgh, with kayaking, pleasuring boating, etc, although the rowing scene in Philly is probably the best in the country, not that you can’t row in Pittsburgh, but it isn’t a mecca for the sport. Pitt is also a much more collaborative institution, with Carnegie Mellon’s campus overlapping its own, cross-registration opportunities, etc., and it has a really unique situation with it (see [here](<a href=“http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10276/1092351-53.stm]here[/url]”>http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10276/1092351-53.stm)</a>). In comparison, Penn and Drexel/USP have virtually no interaction. The other thing, greek life is a much bigger component of the social scene at Penn than at Pitt, if that matters at all to you, and of course, Pitt has a much bigger sports scene. One thing you could do for business is go to Pitt Honors, kick butt, and save your money and target Wharton for an MBA. That said, Wharton is the best business school in the US, undergrad or grad.</p>

<p>Cornell seems a better fit than Penn for you, but if cost is an issue, Pittsburgh may be your best short. Assuming you have strong stats (3.9+ unwieghed GPA with 34+ ACT and/or 2250+ SAT, schools like Michigan, Vanderbilt and WUSTL are known to give out merit scholraships.</p>

<p>If you have the stats for Penn, you probably would be eligible for a full tuition merit scholarship at Pitt. (You might also have a shot at the Chancellor’s Scholarship which is a full ride.)</p>

<p>Penn does have areas of green space: Blanche Levy Park (College Green), the interior of the Quad, lawns by Superblock, the Bio Pond… Next year green space will be drastically increased by Penn Park: </p>

<p>[PennConnects</a> :  — Penn Park Overview](<a href=“Penn Connects : A Vision for the Future.”>Penn Connects : A Vision for the Future.)</p>

<p>The number of times I’ve seen undergraduates at the BioPond in 4 years: zero. It’s a shame, as that is such a nice little nook. I always liked eating my lunch there. They should open up a south gate in the rear of the quad so students can access it and Hamilton Walk better. I also always thought they should rip up the concrete of Perelman and make it a grass quad. You can’t really throw a football or frisbee around College Green. You basically have the lawn next to the Dental school and the lawn by the Law school between 33 and 34th for that, which is what I was going by. Of note though, having Franklin Field accessible is a plus. At Pitt, for a track you have to head a couple of blocks over to Carnegie Mellon, although Pitt is supposed to be building a new track within a year. I forgot about the postal-lands project at Penn. The Penn Park drawings look really nice.</p>

<p>if you believe UPenn is your number 1 choice, don’t second guess yourself. and i don’t believe cost is an issue. don’t let cost prevent you from attending your dream school. if your parent is any parent at all, they’ll be willing to sacrifice a little economically for your education, especially one as good as what Penn can provide.</p>

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<p>Do not listen to this.</p>

<p>You and your parents need to decide whether or not it is financially feasible for you. Think about what you could potentially do down the road with that $200,000. You could pay for med school, law school, business school, or any other graduate school. You could invest it. You could donate it to charity. Don’t buy into this “dream school is worth a billion dollars” crap. Blanket statements like that cannot, or at least should not, be made. This is a personal decision and no one else can make it for you.</p>

<p>You and your family need to decide if Penn is worth $200,000 more than Pitt.</p>

<p>Wow! I can’t thank you all enough. This has been very helpful. wgmcp101, you know everything! That helped me get a much better idea of UPitt, because I haven’t visited it. As I mentioned, I’m UNinterested in business, which is why Wharton’s prowess intimidates me a bit.</p>

<p>The Penn Park drawings are very exciting; hopefully that means I’ll have a great, green place to relax.</p>

<p>The cost is a little frightening. I can afford it, which is why I won’t get much, if any, financial aid. But, as manarius said, that money could be kept for grad school, or invested, or donated. I think that’s really the hardest question to tackle: If I can get a free ride at Pitt, is Penn really worth $200,000 more? I visited Penn and loved it, and I’ve never visited Pitt. However, wgmcp101 says that if I like the Penn campus I’ll probably like the Pitt campus too. It’s a really tough choice :(</p>

<p>@manarius- who the f**k said a billion dollars?</p>

<p>first of all, OP didn’t mention future plans so i went on the basis of the present situation and he did insinuate that he could afford it.</p>

<p>i don’t know about you but if i got accepted to Penn and Pitt, my parents wouldn’t allow me to go to Pitt even with a full ride. To them, my education is more important than their finances.</p>

<p>Oh geez.</p>

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<p>I guess in all that caring about your education, someone overlooked hyperbole.</p>

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<p>Being able to afford something is a far cry from it being a wise financial decision, which was my original point.</p>

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<p>Congratulations? That means that a 60 place difference in the eyes of US News’s undoubtedly flawed rankings, some perceived prestige, and maybe a slightly better education is worth $200,000 to you and your parents. Is this a bad thing? Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. What concerns me, however, is that you refuse to even consider the possibility that maybe that isn’t worth $200,000. This portrays you as extremely naive. My guess is that you grew up in the bubble of daddy’s money and have yet to actually experience the real world (and no, serving soup in a homeless shelter once a week does not count).</p>

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<p>Opps, sorry, I read too quickly and thought you were interested in business. Pitt is an excellent school, and in fact, and holds up very well compared to Penn in several undergrad fields. Any bio or pre-health science, which is my area of familiarity, won’t make any difference where you attend as far as your future, and Pitt is actually a little better at moving students into significant undergrad research, especially in the honors college. Saying that someone wouldn’t go there just because it isn’t in the Ivy League is just ignorance. I’ve personally known more than one individual to select Pitt over Penn even when finances weren’t a deciding factor. I’m not saying Penn isn’t, overall, a better school, (it is) but IMO, it is not necessarily worth the extra money for some fields if finances are a concern. And, there are plenty of top students at Pitt: its honors college average SAT scores are actually higher than Penn’s average (apples to oranges, but the point is that there are plenty of top students there).</p>

<p>However, you should really try to visit Pitt if you haven’t already to make sure you’d be comfortable there. Here’s [a</a> link from someone on this site a while back that shows off Pitt’s campus](<a href=“http://pittsburgh.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=683&tid=139382896&mid=139382896&sid=996&style=1]a”>http://pittsburgh.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=683&tid=139382896&mid=139382896&sid=996&style=1) once you scroll past the athletic stuff. Admittedly, that link doesn’t demonstrate the urban nature of the campus along Forbes and Fifth Aves, but you can sort of see it in the one night-time “skyscraper U” picture.</p>