<p>75% of students apply for FA, and 25% don't. Only 30-40% of admitted student will get FA. Andover acceptance rate was 16.6%.</p>
<p>Say 3,000 students apply to Andover. If the acceptance rate is 16.6%, 498 students will be accepted. Only ~35% of them will get FA, so 174 will get FA. ~65% of accepted students won't get aid, so that would be 324.</p>
<p>So now we have...</p>
<p>FA-------174
Full Pay--324</p>
<p>If 75% apply for FA, that means that 2250 applied for 174 spots which is just 7.7%
If 25% are full pay, that means that 750 applied for 324 spots which is a totally unfair 43.2%.</p>
<p>I am sure a few have seen this but this is pretty important. Of course other factors, such as years of planning for BS, factor in but this is compelling.</p>
<p>Here I'm gonna post what I just posted on another thread.</p>
<p>"The stats are not compelling because they are not stats! There is no page or statistic anywhere that says that there were any specific allocations of spots for full pay and FA applicants BECAUSE ANDOVER IS NEED BLIND. Just because 75% applied for FA and 35% of accepted applicants will receive FA, that does not mean that the other full 40% got denied admission - they got denied financial aid! How is this such a tough concept?</p>
<p>Andover openly advertises itself as need blind - therefore, if and until it retracts this policy, it MAY NOT SEPARATE APPLICANTS BASED ON ABILITY TO PAY. They are bound to the policy until they drop their need blind status! I've said it before and I'll say it again - do you seriously think that Andover would receive no scrutiny for misadvertising its admission policies? Come on, guys, we're going to boarding school - drop the completely unfounded conspiracy theories..."</p>
<p>They do not go into separate piles. I respect Andover for the amazing FA it gives, one of the best in the nation, but do you honestly think that FA pays no role in the process. </p>
<p>I think the 30% parity is pretty interesting too, even if it means that 30% did not get aid. They say that they meet 100% need yet 30% don't get it. Maybe all of that 30% were people who did not need aid. God knows...</p>
<p>I guess there is an emotional argument against, and though it is a bit excited, I would have to say I agree.</p>
<p>I posted the link where Andover says it's need-blind in another thread. You can look at it there. It's not as if one of the most prestigious boarding schools in the country wouldn't be held to their standards. All eyes are on these schools because they're known as the best, therefore (like Tom said), if they were no longer need-blind people would know.</p>
<p>Exeter WAS need-blind, which is why they had to drop their status when they weren't anymore.</p>
<p>I know it plays no role in the process - that's what need blind means!</p>
<p>I mean this completely respectfully, I really do, but maybe that 40% were like you - had parents who make 7 figures and still tried to apply for financial aid. With the current economic climate, more people are feeling pushed for cash, including Andover - their FA budget doubtlessly dropped as the amount of applicants for it went up. They won't spread all of their budget of every admitted FA applicant - if they expected any of the FA receivers to attend, they needed to give them enough to make Andover a viable option. That meant not giving as much or any to some of the others who still got admitted.</p>
<p>I highly doubt that 40% had parents as reluctant to pay as mine. </p>
<p>Look, we have a LOT of money in medical debt... My grandparents were here without insurance (for a visit) and when one of them had a stroke and the other attempted suicide thinking her husband would die. This was all when my parent struggled to put the heater on in the winter, let alone pay 40k a year. </p>
<p>They have a fair share of their own parents debt to pay off also, and we are paying an arm and a leg for them right now. It still surprising them that they can actually afford anything. </p>
<p>I highly doubt all of the 40% of, as you claim, made 7 figs have this kind of history.</p>
<p>OK, OK, sorry, I'll stop targeting you for that one post you made months ago about making seven figures and still applying for FA. I guess you've gotten enough crap about that from tons of people. As for insinuating that the other people all made seven figures, look - how stupid do you think I am? This was, again, targeted at you. Sorry, I'll stop. I just think it's ridiculous how many people actually buy the idea that Andover is lying about being need blind and who then try to "back up" this idea with "statistics."</p>
<p>SPS is need blind. Andovers need blind. I think after everyone read the exeter article they just ASSUMED everyone else was dropping need blind status. Not everyone follows exeters example (not bashing!)</p>
<p>Yes, about these statistics...where did it say that 75% of the applicants applied for FA? The rest of the stats seem to be public information and accurate based on what's on this site (Phillips</a> Academy - Welcome Newly Admitted Students) but I don't see the thing about 75% needing FA/25% being full-pay anywhere.</p>
<p>I also submit this: the OP's logic assumes that all FA candidates and all full-pay candidates are equally qualified for admission and therefore should have the same admit rates. I would argue that's an assumption that cannot possibly be made without knowledge of the applicant pool.</p>
<p>I agree, there is a huge +/- factor there. I just thought the parity was compelling, obviously there are many ways that it proves to be insignificant. </p>
<p>GemmaV: As an admissions officer, do you *truly<a href="and%20I%20will%20take%20your%20word%20for%20it">/i</a> believe that schools are fully need blind. Whether Hogwarts is need blind or not, I do not know, but knowing the ins and outs of the system do you agree that need blind is fully need blind. </p>
<p>Reason I wonder is schools like to protect yield (Tufts Syndrome?) and as such may deny students to whom they cannot offer FA.</p>
<p>Also, I read that Andover meets 100% need. So to every ACCEPTED student, they would need to meet the need. If they cannot afford someone, to keep such status, wouldn't they need to deny them off the bat?</p>
<p>Wow... If you knew how unlikely your statement is you would probably have skipped out on posting... </p>
<p>First of all, Andover goes to the poorest regions of the nation and implores full aid minorities to apply. I attended one of these meetings, and I talked with my Andover interviewer aftwards(he hosted it). He told me that he would only get three realistic applicant out of 6 meetings(over 100 families). The rest are just zero chance kids... I really felt bad when he said that. Andover tries to get a lot of minorities and FA kids... But they arn't willing to sacrifice their "average student's ability" by accepting 2nd rate kids. A lot of the 2nd rate kids are going to be the minorities/FA kids that they searched for... Really a sad fact. </p>
<p>Using your head first really works. I hate it when people think that FA students are worse... In many aspects I think that if you apply for FA you are going to be a lot more successful. If you took on that responsibility yourself that is... I did alot of the stuff by myself and I know it shows that I am pretty independent.</p>
<p>Look at some of the full pay students... Attended math camps since they were six, Kumon(math tutoring) for over 5 years, lacrosse camp at Duke, football camp at USC, mission trip to India and top private school PLUS private language lessons.
FA students: I work three jobs(Camp counselor, Italian Restaurant(Go figure?) and Math tutor at Kumon). Two at the same time(One in the summer). I know that alot of FA kids don't do that... But I can't pursue alot of things. I was able to be a TASP scholar because they matched my paycheck for any time that I would have worked.
Lacrosse plus a job takes up tons of time... Alot of my friends have private tutors for their weaknesses. My family just can't pay for it, and I don't have the time. (Writing Spanish is mine... I use about 75% spanish and 25% italian when I write for any spanish class assignment).</p>
<p>FULL AID STUDENTS CAN'T REALLY PURSUE ALL OF THE EXTRA RESUME BOOSTERS. My basic point.</p>
<p>I am not saying any type of student is any better or any worse. I do not know where you got that from.</p>
<p>I did not intend this to be a huge argument... I don't, however, how you think that FA kids are going to be a lot more successful? If I took the responsibility to apply for FA (which my parents made me at first, but assuming I stuck with it...) I would have looked like a bloody idiot.</p>
<p>You aren't an FA student... I already bashed you earlier before I knew you and I regret that. You said some stupid stuff and you lied about you financial situation(Or you have some very odd circumstances that change rapidly). </p>
<p>I promise you... around 29% of the kids that are given FA(beyond $30,000) occupy that top 5% of the class at the average private school. Applying for FA independently simply shows that you have a very independent nature... Not always. If you have a history of being independent... You will probably apply for FA if you need that option.</p>