<p>Aren't public high schools the best? My niece just called me and said she was told this today by her counselor. She has a 3.7 acc GPA at a lower middle-class public.</p>
<p>Yes, I know University of Michigan is competitive but is it really a counselor's job to discourage applicants? Not everyone is a gunner who is motivated by hearing things like that. This woman doesn't have any idea the life experiences of my niece. And the worst part is that my niece's parents can't complain, because the counselor has to fill out a portion of the common app for my niece.</p>
<p>I think it is perfectly appropriate - even necessary - for a GC to help set appropriate expectations for a student. I’m not saying whether this was appropriate for this particular student, as much would depend on other stats, courses taken, etc. But I think the role of the GC is to help set realistic expectations.</p>
<p>Silly counselor to be honest. I’m guessing she goes to a public school in Michigan that doesn’t send many kids to Mich so I could see why the counselor would exaggerate in such a manner.</p>
<p>What is ‘acc’? Assuming this is her unweighted GPA… If she has a 3.7 UW and is in-state, she could still get in, but she would need strong test scores unless she has another hook. She should assume Michigan is a reach, but certainly should apply. As long as she has good match & safety schools, there is no harm in that. The GC wasn’t very tactful, and may have exaggerated a bit with the GPA estimate. But your niece is by no means a shoo in, either.</p>
<p>Acc is short for (unweighted) accumulative. The particular Michigan public school sends a couple of kids to Michigan every year. Let’s be honest, good counselors in public schools are few and far. Even David Brooks wrote about this recently.</p>
<p>The in-state acceptance rate at Michigan is 50%. There is nothing appropriate about telling a student where they should or shouldn’t go after a 10 minute cattle call on “College day”</p>
<p>And the middle 50% GPA for incoming freshmen is 3.7-3.9. This counselor is completely off the mark.</p>
<p>Your niece should definitely apply. I always tell kids that they will never get in if they don’t apply. If they apply, they have a chance no matter how small.</p>
<p>But I also don’t see anything worng with a counselor setting realistic expectations especially if the counselor also suggested some match and safety colleges. I have more problems with counselors not encouraging kids applying to match and safety colleges. I seen several kids that applied to mostly or only reach colleges and got all rejections.</p>
<p>There is no harm in applying. Your niece doesn’t have to “complain” to the counselor, she could just say she really wants to try for it and then it isn’t the counselor’s job to choose for her. I’ve heard a few horror stories about horrible college application advice from high school counselors, so it is best for one to go by one’s own jurisdiction rather than take everything the counselor says as law.</p>
<p>By the way, I’m applying to MIT with a 3.7 UW… In all really tough classes. My GPA is certainly a weak spot on my application, but I’ve never thought of that .3 as an automatic dealbreaker. And of course it depends on other parts of the application, and what classes she was taking, but an A- average should definitely not be a reason to not apply.</p>
<p>Well, yes, but that’s because only about 10% of the graduating seniors in the state apply, and most of those who do are in the top 10% of their class. It’s a highly self-selecting group, mainly because a lot of the state’s graduating seniors get advice not unlike that given to your niece, albeit often more tactfully stated.</p>
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<p>I think those are old figures. If I recall correctly, the average unweighted GPA of this year’s entering class is 3.85. But even accepting your figures, that would put your niece at the 25th percentile of the entering class. I wouldn’t rate the chances of someone at the 25th percentile as particularly strong, unless they were in the top quartile in other relevant criteria, e.g., test scores. But Michigan has always weighed GPA and rigor of HS curriculum more heavily than test scores, so even if her ACT/SAT scores are stellar, it’s a bit of a dicey proposition. And when you say she’s attending a “lower middle class school,” it makes me wonder whether she’s attending a school that offers a particularly rigorous curriculum. Now this is all contextual: obviously if she’s never been presented with a rigorous curriculum, there’s only so much she can do as an individual. But what she could do in that circumstance is to ace all her classes, and she hasn’t done that. So unless the rest of her application is stellar, Michigan seems like a bit of a longshot, and the GC has an obligation to tell her that, albeit kindly and tactfully (which may not have been the case here) and in a way that encourages her to continue to strive to do her best.</p>
<p>I’m not suggesting she shouldn’t apply. If she aspires to be at Michigan, she should put together her strongest application and go for it. But she should also be realistic in understanding that she may not be admitted, and therefore she needs to have a strong fallback position.</p>
<p>This years data shows: 21.6% had a GPA 3.50-3.74, 36.7% had an ACT composite 24-29</p>
<p>To imply or suggest you need a 4.0 is bs. Especially so if it’s during a cattle call for all seniors and you’re ONLY looking at their GPA and first ACT score. And many early action applicants are deferred. Why would you discourage a student when their first semester performance can still play such a heavy factor?</p>
<p>Also, she’s a lock for Michigan State, so unless the counselor doesn’t think a student should apply to a reach, I’m not sure where else she would recommend she apply. /eye roll</p>
<p>I dont understand what the issue is here. I wouldn’t get my hopes up if stats are in the bottom 25%, but that by no means means there’s no chance. I apologize for the counselor for being honest; it’s obviously a sin these nowaday where everyone’s a winner and everyone’s special in their own way. Why be realistic when you can flatter right? :)</p>
<p>I think its more likely the GC told her not to get her hopes up and to consider some safeties. Nothing wrong with that. Perfectly fine. She probably heard something like “You need a 4.0” and got mad. </p>
<p>Let’s be honest, this is a high schooler being told her potential dream school may not happen. She might not have taken that well. </p>
<p>A GC should let kids know their realistic chances</p>
<p>If a student is a lock for Michigan State and then brings up other schools like Michigan, this isn’t a case of “consider some safeties”. The safety was already discussed. A 4.0 GPA shouldn’t be brought up because a, it’s false & b, counselors should encourage a reach. Correct me if I’m wrong but Michigan takes a very “holistic” look at every applicant, so tell me why a counselor should offer anything but support if she’s not privy to the details of the application? Typical crap public schools. Typical Saginaw Valley loser who became a lazy, out of touch public school counselor.</p>
<p>Since you’re getting this second-hand, you can’t be sure of what the GC said exactly, or whether there was more context. If, for example, she had said, “Well, with the ACT score you have now, you’d need like a 4.0 to get in there,” it would ring a bit differently.</p>
<p>Put me on the side of the aisle agreeing that part of a GC’s job is to give honest feedback, advice and appraisal to students.
Do we want every GC to tell every child “Harvard? Sure. You’re in!”?</p>
<p>However, should GCs always exhibit tact, courtesy and encouragement? Yes.</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind – the O/P wasn’t in the room with her niece and the GC. Things just might have gotten a little jumbled in the re-telling. It’s been known to happen.</p>
<p>Note: Just saw Hunt’s post above. Absolutely.</p>
<p>I don’t see anything wrong with saying “I wouldn’t get your hopes up.” I agree with the poster who said kids brought up in the “everyone gets a trophy” era aren’t used to hearing the hard truth about real life. In college and beyond, not everyone gets a trophy, admission to their dream school, or constant acknowledgment of their fabulousness in the workplace.</p>
<p>So now we’re onto exaggerated straw man arguments. An in-state applying to Michigan with bottom third numbers is suddenly comparable to Harvard? Yea, no.</p>
It’s been known to happen.</p>