<p>My D definitely feels that after IB college is very manageable. I doubt it helped one whit with acceptance, though. Overall, for her it was the right choice but she loved the extensive essay writing. Not every kid would enjoy that or find it beneficial.</p>
<p>californiaaa, you may find this link interesting “Academic Performance of IB Students Entering the University of California System from 2000-2002”:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ibo.org/research/programmevalidation/documents/CADataReportReportSummary_tempweb.pdf[/url]”>500;
<p>In general, IB programs do a good job of preparing students for the rigor of college.</p>
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<p>However, is there a selection effect going on here? It looks like most schools that offer IB offer it as the most rigorous curriculum, so only the most academically motivated students at those schools would choose the IB programs there. In addition, IB programs tend to be high workload and cover all high school subjects (in contrast to being able to select honors/AP courses in some courses but choose regular courses in others), which can further deter students other than those who are top students in all subjects in the high school.</p>
<p>In other words, if the IB programs were absent, but other similarly or more advanced and rigorous options (e.g. rigorous honors courses instead of IB SL courses, AP and college courses instead of IB HL courses) in the same subjects were offered to those same students, would those same students do similarly well in college in such an alternate reality?</p>
<p>"So if my kid wants to take an off the wall college class and even if the logistics work out our HS is not happy with it. "</p>
<p>Yes, HS’s are known to be supportive (sarcasm). HSs are not very happy, but it is possible to convince them that the student will take class in college … if it is really worth it.</p>
<p>"Take the most rigor you can get at your school. IB, AP, or College. You don’t get penalized for not doing the unavailable. "</p>
<p>My D may go to
- HS that is offering IB or to
- HS that is known to be very flexible and accommodating. In the second case she may take some classes in college. </p>
<p>What is better?</p>
<p>It depends. She should try to map out what her course schedule will be like at each high school to see which will allow her to get the schedule that best fits her abilities and interests.</p>
<p>If she is likely to be more than a year ahead of normal grade level in a subject, then the ability to take college courses in the subject will be advantageous for her in that subject (the usual top level AP and IB HL courses are at most one year ahead of normal grade level, being at most college frosh level).</p>
<p>My DD went did the IB Diploma (at an international school) and she went to SUNY Binghamton. With a couple of summer courses, she was able to graduate 3 semesters early because of her IB credits.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ibo.org/country/university_info.cfm?university_name=SUNY%20-%20Binghamton%20University¤t_country=UNITED%20STATES[/url]”>http://www.ibo.org/country/university_info.cfm?university_name=SUNY%20-%20Binghamton%20University¤t_country=UNITED%20STATES</a></p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for lots of great ideas.</p>
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<p>I’m sure there is! Even if the linked report attempted to care for that effect, the most rigorous programs draw the best students.</p>
<p>My D had to be tested to enter IB. Many didn’t get into the program.</p>
<p>D1 graduated from a high school without IB offering (top private school in our state). D2 graduated from an international school where IB was the most rigorous curriculum. D2 thought IB was a lot of busy work. She was more challenged at her old high school (where D1 graduated from). Books she read in 10th grade English class were read again in her 12th grade IB HL class. Another negative thing about IB courses was they did not prepare D2 for SAT IIs. D2 had to be tutored to take Math II. English HL didn’t prepare D2 for the Literature test, whereas D1 was able to take it and get a high score without any preparation. All of those extra tutoring put a lot of pressure on D2.</p>
<p>I think D1 was better prepared for college than D2. D1 took the most difficult curriculum at her high school, and D2 took full IB at her school.</p>
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<p>Was she in IB math SL or HL? If SL, there should not really be an expectation of taking SAT subject math level 2, since SL is not sufficiently advanced for the student to have completed the math level 2 stuff by the end of junior year.</p>
<p>Math level 2 assumes completion of precalculus and trigonometry, so only students a year or more advanced in math are expected to take it. I.e. student who take it will be ready for calculus by senior year of high school (this means math HL if in an IB program).</p>
<p>Students not advanced in math are expected to take math level 1. This includes students in IB math SL.</p>
<p>Re: #33</p>
<p>However, if the IB school described by oldfort were like your school (students completing trigonometry and precalculus in junior year, ahead of the normal IB math SL pace), then her daughter should not have needed additional tutoring to do well on the SAT math level 2 subject test, unless the school’s math instruction is of generally poor quality.</p>
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<p>This brings up an interesting point about IB.</p>
<p>If a student is highly accelerated in one or more subjects, IB may be an awkward fit. Students may have to slow themselves down in a subject in order to take the right courses for IB at the right times.</p>
<p>In IB, students must take 6 diploma subjects, of which 3 or 4 are higher level (HL) and 2 or 3 are standard level (SL). They must complete the HL subjects in grade 12. They may complete no more than 2 SL subjects in grade 11. They can’t take any IB tests before grade 11 because they’re not officially in IB until grade 11.</p>
<p>Because of this structure, students who are ready for advanced courses too soon may have problems.</p>
<p>Consider, for example, a student who is ready for calculus in grade 10. </p>
<p>If this student is not in IB, the student can enroll in AP AB Calculus in 10th grade and then take more advanced courses (probably at a local college) in grades 11 and 12. </p>
<p>But if the student is in IB, he/she cannot start the 2-year HL math sequence (which includes calculus) until grade 11. This creates the problem of what to do with the student in 10th grade. In our school system, such kids take AP Statistics that year, just to have a math course in their schedules. But that option may not be available everywhere. And slowing themselves down in math may not be acceptable to students who care more about pursuing their interest in math as far as they can go than about being in the IB program.</p>
<p>We didn’t care which SAT II D2 took, she just needed 2 SAT IIs (she already took chemistry at her old school), so we met with all of her teachers in trying to figure out which courses would have prepared her for SAT II tests. We couldn’t find any, except Math 2 and Literature. Whereas D1 at her prep school was able to take many SAT IIs without a lot (any) of preparation.</p>
<p>@post #35</p>
<p>One common one critique of IB programs is the lack of flexibility, being driven by the 6 diploma subject requirement. Supporters of IB would say “it presents a broad general education for students who can function well across the curriculum while providing for specialization in accord with students’ interests and plans.”</p>
<p>Back around 2001 or so, the State of Florida did an analysis of IB programs in comparison to Cambridge’s AICE (Advanced International Certificate of Education) program. The final result was to recommend both programs. It’s a 181 page report with 44 tables, and such, but you may find the executive summary interesting. The report includes everything from Student/Parent/Teacher satisfaction scores to SAT test results.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cala.fsu.edu/files/certificate_baccalaureate.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cala.fsu.edu/files/certificate_baccalaureate.pdf</a></p>
<p>@post #36</p>
<p>I think that goes to prove that a high school doesn’t need an IB program to have a rigorous curriculum. However, for a lot of public (and private) schools, where cost is critical, it’s a useful (and very easy) template to follow. It also allows you to have two separate curriculum’s, one for your better students (IB) and then a standard plan for the bulk of your students. At elite(rigorous) high schools, there may be no need for this…</p>
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<p>IB is flexible at some levels and inflexible at other levels.</p>
<p>It can be (and has been) adapted so that students can get the IB diploma while meeting a wide variety of different national (or in the U.S., state) graduation requirements. And individual IB schools have considerable flexibility in choosing which IB courses to teach.</p>
<p>But from the student’s point of view, it may seem incredibly inflexible. For example, as discussed above, there is no power on Earth that will make it possible for a student to take an HL test in the first year of IB (in the United States, that means 11th grade). </p>
<p>Another example (a legendary story from my daughter’s IB school): A student at this school was awarded a large and prestigious college scholarship by a national Asian-American organization. The organization required the scholarship recipient to attend the closing banquet of its national convention so that the scholarship could be presented. The convention was held on the other side of the country during the same time period when IB exams were given. If the student attended the banquet, she would miss her IB math exam. </p>
<p>The school contacted the regional (North American) IB organization to find out what to do. Could the student take the exam on another day? No. Could the student be excused from the exam (as is sometimes done in cases of severe illness)? No. Could the student take the exam at another IB school in a community near the convention location? No. The student had to take the IB exam at the scheduled time, on the scheduled date, at her own school, or she would not get the IB diploma.</p>
<p>Eventually, the organization giving the scholarship backed down and allowed the student to be presented with the scholarship at a different time, earlier in the convention schedule, and then fly back overnight so that she could take the exam. If they had not done this, the student would have had to choose between getting the IB diploma and getting the scholarship. There was no way that IB was going to back down. Ever.</p>
<p>Of course looking at that example, who should be flexible? A national org that gives scholarships to top students (who therefore should be aware of IB/AP/SAT test dates) or an world wide org trying to make sure that nobody is committing fraud w/ the tests?</p>
<p>On test flexibility, our school routinely sends students to a national championship in a particular academic-type event. Every year, that championship conflicts with one or more IB exams. The IBO has allowed students to take the exams on the right day, in the location where the national championship is held - no flexibility on the date, but happy to accommodate location.</p>