<p>Long anwers
....
Let's me throw the conclusion.
Both courses are equally good. -_-</p>
<p>My kids' school (International School) offers both and one drawback to the IB program is that kids can't be in IB and Band, Orchestra or Choir classes.</p>
<p>Standard level takes one year? All my courses, regardless of level take 2 years and Im doing the regular diploma...
Its true that a lot of US colleges dont recognize the IB, as some1 said b4, some dont even know what it is -.-
which is really unfortunate, b/c sometimes IB students are graded fairly (by admissions officers) when applying b/c those colleges dont understand how rigorous the IB is and how much work it is. I would definetely think IB is harder than AP. I also agree with Meg that a lot of ppl get burnt out from the IB. It IS a lifestyle, you have to wholly commit yourself to it, and often, your social life will be diminished or minimized to one night, i.e. friday night or sth. The simple fact of the matter is, it takes up so much time that you have to cut down on lots of other things. (EC's, hobby's, etc.). At least thats how it is with me ;(
But overall, Im glad that Im doing the IB. I know its preparing me for college and later life well: I've developed good study habits and can work for long hours unlike b4. I know a person a grade above me going to ER who is waaaay ahead of every1 else in terms of knowledge, etc. And he got a huge amount of credits. Ofc, AP can do the same for you in terms of credit, but Im not entirely sure if AP would prepare you for the workload in college in the same way.</p>
<p>Some schools make their SL courses two years.</p>
<p>We have to take HL History and English here, not really sure why, I guess because you need four years to graduate. Still I don't know why someone couldn't do two years and take the SL exam. But for languages, it's two years for most people, and the second year is HL/SL combined. Sciences are HL/SL combined but this year they managed to get Physics split so it was an SL class and an HL class, we still take two years before the exam. I have to take SL Physics because I have four HLs already with the History and English and I'm doing diploma. We still are going over the HL options apparently but he did this to make it easier for some people than being in HL/SL combined (without the math background) and it kind of bothers me that it's this way this year but oh well. </p>
<p>If your school offers individual AP classes AND IB diploma program, it's likely that the diploma program will be considered the most difficult courseload, because of the extra stuff (on the school profile type stuff). So in that case for admissions I'd advise you to pick IB. If you're talking about switching schools for IB, it's unnecessary. If your current school has only AP then what they don't offer won't be held against you. Same with IB schools and AP.</p>
<p>aznoveracheiver - International Academy?</p>
<p>I prefer APs myself because, well, AP courses aren't all about the college credit. In our school's APUSH class, the people go into the minutest details, such as how Scott gave Trist a jar of guava marmalade (and they became friends). There's a lot about understanding the concepts, too, but the program overall is more pragmatic and flexible, and less idealistic. A lot of people prefer IBs, though. IBs are more internationally recognized, whereas APs are recognized more in the U.S. I'm biased because my school doesn't offer IBs, but I prefer APs. IB classes/programs do have a larger workload, but they don't prepare anybody any better for college than APs (in my opinion). Also, if you want independent study, choose AP. It's a lot easier with APs.</p>
<p>There is no independent study with IB. You have to be enrolled in the class at an IBO school to register for the exam.</p>
<p>proletariat, you are correct!</p>
<p>so how'd you guess? are you in MI too?</p>
<p>My daughter is in IB, and I like the program. However, there are a few potential disadvantages worth considering.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>IB tends to take up most if not all of the school day, leaving little or no time for other courses. This can be a problem for students whose main "outside" interest is something that's a class, not a true EC. Journalism is a good example. In some schools, you must be enrolled in the journalism class in order to write for the school newspaper. If you're IB, you might not have time in your schedule for that journalism class. Therefore, you can't work on the paper. The same problem applies to people whose main interest is band/orchestra/choir. In some places, you must be enrolled in the band, orchestra, or choir class to be eligible for outside musical activities or honors groups. If you are involved in an activity that is really a class, you may want to talk to the IB people about whether you will be able to continue participating before you make a commitment to IB.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are extremely accelerated in any subject, it may be difficult to fit you into IB because 1) you can only take HL tests in your senior year, and 2) you must be enrolled in a course in the subject at the time you take the test. For example, at my daughter's school, there are several kids in the IB program who came from a French immersion elementary/middle school program. Because of their extensive background in French, they would be ready to take IB French 6, the course that terminates in the HL exam, in 10th or 11th grade. But they can't do that. HL tests can only be taken in 12th grade. These kids actually have to drop French and take a different language, or no language, for one or two years to slow themselves down so that they can be ready for the IB tests at the right time.</p></li>
<li><p>IB can screw you over in terms of the SAT Subject Tests. People take SAT Subject Tests on the basis of what they've learned by the end of 11th grade (or earlier). But IB doesn't let you do your most advanced work until 12th grade. For example, say that you want to take the SAT Subject Test in Biology. If you were a regular AP-taking student, the best way to prepare would be to take AP Biology in 11th grade and then take the SAT Subject Test at the end of that year. But if you're IB, and you're taking HL Biology, you're only halfway through the curriculum at the end of 11th grade. There are topics you haven't studied yet. That means that you would have to study those topics on your own to do well on the SAT Subject Test. </p></li>
<li><p>The CAS (creativity-action-service) requirement is easy for well-rounded sorts of people but a real pain for people whose extracurricular activities are narrowly focused in a single area. These people often find themselves having to make a substantial commitment to a new EC that they don't even like in order to complete one of the categories. For example, if your main interest is student government, you're going to have no trouble with the service or creativity requirements (creativity can be satisfied by time spent planning activities). But action (usually satisfied by participation in sports or musical performance) will be a pain in the butt for you. Similarly, sports or music people often have a hard time with creativity. </p></li>
<li><p>If you're IB, you're going to end up taking AP tests anyway. Very few colleges give credit for IB SL tests, and at least 2 of your 6 IB tests (for most people, 3 of the 6) will be SL. So what people do is to take the AP tests in these subjects on top of the IB tests, to see whether they can score high enough to get credit. In some subjects, this may involve additional preparation since the IB and AP curricula differ.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>yeah about the CAS, thats true. I had absolutely zero service and like 150 hours each of creativity and action. Now I have to rake leaves outside to get service -_-</p>
<p>I think AP is better.</p>
<p>It just gives you so many freedoms.</p>
<p>Marian, several of the things you say do not apply to all schools that offer the IB. </p>
<p>For example, that about only doing HL in your senior year: in my school, the IB is a two-year program, meaning that we do all of our subjects, including the SL ones, over two years. In some subjects, like biology and Enlgish, we skip around the syllabus too, so it's not that the most difficult stuff necessarily comes at the end of year 2.</p>
<p>Thats unfortunate for those French-speaking students. However, it doesn't have to be that way. Maybe you need to be enrolled in the class, but that does not mean that you must attend all the lessons. Although it's not exactly the same situation, I do a similar thing in my school, when 2/3 of the time I go to my language A2 and 1/3 of the time to my language B, even though they are at the same time. I think this kind of thing depends a lot on who your coordinator is, and how willing he or she is to be flexible and find workable (if not always optimal) solutions to problems.</p>
<p>That which you mention as a disadvantage with CAS is exactly what makes it so great. You are forced to explore new things and try things you'd never have done if it weren't for CAS. If someone has a burning interest for an EC and spends a lot of time on it, then chances are they'd do it even if they didn't have to. CAS isn't meant for deepening a commitment to one thing, it is meant to teach you new things. In fact, in my school we're not allowed to count something we've done before as CAS. Someone who loves soccer can't just keep on with that and easily get CAS hours; instead, that person must do something different- maybe teach soccer to little kids- to count it for CAS. Nothing in the IB is supposed to be easy, so why should CAS be any different? As for being a real pain, it can be... But that also depends on the way you view it. If you see it as an opportunity to try things you'd never dream of doing or dare do before, instead of considering it a waste of 150 hours better spent on something else, then you'll love CAS.</p>
<p>Well, only taking HL exams in your senior year IS true. However at my school we do have fluent French speakers (not even immersion...kids who actually grew up in french speaking countries). Unfortunately there are not enough for a fluent speaking class but they just take three years of IB French (SL1, SL2, HL2). </p>
<p>Same with math if you start Methods in 10th, but then it goes SL1, HL1, HL2.</p>
<p>Princedog, I didn't say that only taking HL classes in your senior year wasn't true- only that that is something that has to do with how the induvidual school works, and not anything to do with the IB program in itself.</p>
<p>Thanks for providing all the information, flattie9.</p>
<p>IB is indeed implemented in different ways in different schools. I had never heard of some of the possibilities you discussed. (Being enrolled in two courses that meet at the same time would be unthinkable at my daughter's school.)</p>
<p>I think the important thing for a kid considering IB is to investigate the local program (not just the IBO Web site) in as much detail as possible so that there aren't unfortunate surprises later. </p>
<p>As the differences between what flattie9 described and what I described illustrate, all IBs are not the same. I think this is at least partly due to the need to adapt IB so that the program, as it is implemented, satisfies BOTH the IB requirements and the state's graduation requirements. Different states have different graduation requirements. </p>
<p>A lot depends on the knowledge and dedication of the IB coordinator and the degree to which the school system is committed to IB. I have noticed, for example, that there are kids who post on CC who say "I used to be an IB diploma candidate, but now I'm just taking a few IB courses. I had to drop out of the diploma program because two of the courses that I needed for the diploma conflicted with each other, and there was no way to resolve the conflict." This reflects a school that isn't 100% committed to the IB diploma program. At my daughter's school, which is extremely committed to IB and considers its high proportion of IB students who successfully complete the diploma to be a major bragging point, the conflict would be resolved somehow (although the student might have to be somewhat flexible about course choices).</p>
<p>I like AP better. I don't know about IB. For AP classes, I can say that it is a lot of works to do. As I said, I choose to take AP classes and right now I don't even have time to check my e-mail. I have to stay up so late everyday for reading and stuff. I have like 50-80 pages to read within 2 days and take cornell note. I have no idea for IB. I am guessign that maybe IB classes also give students lot of work. Well, I think it depends on teacher as well.</p>
<p>I am enrolled in a magnet program and we participate in APs, not the IB. For AP, it definitely depends on the teacher and the subject matter. For classes like the sciences and math, I think APs are great, because a college calculus class, for example, is going to cover a very specific curriculum and it is easy for the college board to develop a curriculum and test it.<br>
However, my experiences in the humanities have been a little less uniform. I think it is VERY hard for history teachers to teach an AP curriculum because there is such a massive and specific set of information that they are required to teach. This can limit potentially wonderful lesson plans because time does not permit to teach info not on the test. One teacher was very curriculum focused and mostly lectured. He was very well prepared and entertaining and we ultimately did very well on the AP test, but I felt that my intellectual growth in the class was rather limited. I learned a LOT about US history, but I feel that there was much more that could have been discussed and argued. My other teacher was a lot less focused on the AP curriculum and let class flow how he wanted it to. I learned a great number of analytical skills and I really learned how to form a critical historic argument. Intellectually, I felt like I learned a lot more in the class. However, we were not that well prepared for the actual AP test because, frankly, our teacher couldn't give a crap about some stupid test. As a result, to do well, students had to do a LOT more self-studying at the end. </p>
<p>Ultimately, it seems like the IB curriculum probably does implement more of the intellectual stuff into the classes because it is all about analysis and critical thinking. However, from what I have heard from friends enrolled in the program at other schools, it does have its own flaws. AP does offer more curriculum flexibility because students can pick and choose what they want to take and which classes are better non-AP. At my school, it really doesn't matter because we have really great non-AP courses, but for many schools, having a broad range of classes to take on many levels is beneficial to a lot of students.</p>
<p>I think in the end it really depends on the school. I know that the kids at one school near my home have a very limited curriculum if they go the IB diploma route because their school is so small. They do not have the opportunity to take the "rare-only-100-kids-in-the-world" type math classes mentioned above because there are not enough students to take advantage of them. I have one friend who is very interested in math and science and opted not to get the diploma because she felt it was more important for her to take a strong college course in multivariable calculus instead of the highest IB class, which was basically a sampler of various college math classes. Other students have found the program constricting if they want to go into a narrow focus because the strict requirements limit the number of science classes they are allowed to take. So basically, different kidshave different complaints about their programs. </p>
<p>Really, I think it pointless to argue over which program is better. If you take the most demanding classes in high school, I doubt that colleges are going to care whether they were AP or IB. I really think it is much more a matter of personal choice and goals. Look over your school's curriculum carefully and plan schedules for yourself if you took AP vs. IB. See which you would prefer. Talk to students. I think that getting a feel for the experience at your own school would be much better than talking to kids here who have no idea what the programs where you live are like.</p>
<p>Here's the thing, when you compare an IB kid to an AP kid, and both are about the same intelligence and have the same work ethic, the AP kid will probably look better in terms of number of courses and what not in that respect, not saying IB is bad or anything, just from people that I've known, usually the non-IB one turns out to do better, but that MIGHT be because of school. Basically devushka hit on the point I'd say.</p>
<p>i completely agree with devushka's last paragraph....</p>
<p>however, i would like to say that there is only one other kid at my school who is taking IB Further Math (which is the "rare-only-100-kids-in-the-world" math class that devushka is referring to), so whether a student can take the class really depends on the school's dedication to the IB program (like marian said), especially since this is the first year that my school is offering that class; anyways, my school has only just over 600 students and my grade has about 135 students....</p>
<p>also, although one may perceive Math HL as "a sampler of various college math classes" (devushka), it goes into as much depth as breadth; i get (past) practice problems in that class all the time, and there is always one really hard problem that tests concepts that I already know, but it tests them in a really hard way to separate the kids who get 7s on the IB Exam from everyone else; just some facts: about 6-7% of all the kids who take the exam get a 7, 20% get at least a 6, etc.</p>
<p>I think that kids can't study for those types of problems; the problems are like those on the AIME or those on the MMPC Part II (Michigan Math Prize Competition, google "MMPC math" and it should pop up); it takes at least 3 or 4 years of exposure to those types of problems to develop the creative thinking skills necessary to solve them; that's why it is quite difficult to get a 7 on the exam and why IB Math HL can be quite frustrating for those that are good, but not great at math....</p>
<p>just wanted to respond to what aznover achiever said. Sorry if I had a misconception about the IB math class! I am just repeating what my friend who chose not to take it said to me and I have no firsthand authority on the IB program itself. So please, everybody, take what I said about any specific IB classes with a grain of salt. I am no expert. :-)</p>
<p>IB HL Methods isn't a sample of college classes per se, but it does go into more than calc. We do 3D vectors, complex numbers, trig, and problems that go through trig, calc, etc. If that makes sense. My math teacher has taught both and basically she says she likes both but that IB does give you experience in a higher level of the skills you learned earlier not just calc. They both have their pluses and minuses. Rather than saying one is better across the board I would say that IB is better for some people, like people who like to keep working with concepts or work through problems that are more multi step or involved kind of like a puzzle, drawing in different things. I think the way IB is designed in most classes (stressing more of concepts and critical thinking than memorizing material) may give more people a chance to succeed in higher level classes, even if they choose to only take certificates or not do any HLs. However when we're talking about advanced students who will either do diploma or several APs per year they will probably do well in either and either will prepare them. Therefore I say go with what your base school offers and take the hardest curriculum of that. If you go to an IB school and don't do diploma without a legitimate excuse (i.e. conflict) it won't look good for admissions that you didn't do the hardest offered curriculum. So if you are sketchy about the CAS and EE, keep that in mind.</p>