<p>I know Indiana University has an investment banking workshop program and that students that are accepted into this program are almost guarenteed to end up in IBanking. How does the equivalent program at Michigan State compare? I think it is called the FMI program which was started about 4 years ago. I know Indiana has the edge with its "name" and "reputation" but I am from Michigan and cannot afford Indiana's tuition. </p>
<p>Basically, how does the FMI @ michigan state compare to the IBanking workshop at Indiana University? I realize that in order to go into IBanking a graduate degree is required which is why I am not too worried "reputation" for my undergrad but I'm still a bit worried I will not be able to get into I-banking from MSU.</p>
<p>Well, as stated above you obviously have some flaws in your post.</p>
<p>First of all, just because you get into the workshop doesn’t mean that you will receive a job. Only about 60 people have graduated from its 9ish year span. That is like 6 people a year. </p>
<p>BTW i have never heard of FMI in Michigan State so i cant give you any info on it.</p>
<p>You second mistake on this post is that you need a graduate degree to do ibanking and your wrong. Most people get ibanking jobs after their undergraduate education and before their graduate education. And if they really want, they can continue their career after graduate school.</p>
<p>And your third mistake is that you say that undergraduate reputation does not matter. Undergraduate prestige is very important. Probably the most important factor in ibanking. Students from harvard and penn have much more of a chance (99%) to get a job offer than someone from kelley (1%)</p>
<p>I think your odds are off a bit. Somebody in the K IB program probably has a 50-50 or better shot (or did until this debacle), while the random non Wharton H or P student probably has a 50-50 chance.</p>
<p>lssd2012,
barrons is absolutely right. The number of those coming out of Indiana’s IBW program and getting jobs in Investment Banking was 93% in 2006 and 100% in 2007. I’d say those odds are quite a bit better than you indicate here.</p>
<p>Also, I agree that people from top universities (such as Penn and Harvard) have good chances at IB jobs. However, it largely depends upon whether they took Wharton classes (at Penn) or Econ courses (at Harvard).</p>
<p>There have been numerous threads on this already. Just a normal major at Harvard (for example, Spanish Literature) would have no more chance at an IB job than someone graduating from any other top 50 college–unless they have rich family connections. If we look at people who went to Penn–and had at least a minor from Wharton, their odds of IB jobs were 30 times that (per last year’s statistics) of those who took no such courses. I posted these statistics in the “Business Majors” section last year if you want to get the specifics.</p>
<p>Of course, as indicated in post #6 above, this is not the easiest time to get IB jobs (or any other kind of jobs).</p>
<p>But your first two points (out of your 3 points) are right on the mark.</p>
<p>With the possible exception of the 11xx and 17xx series, I fail to see how most Harvard econ courses are actually relevant to most IB jobs. Let’s be honest. Do you really think that investment bankers care a whit about, say, General Equilibrium Theory? Or Social Choice Theory? Or Perfect Bayesian equilibria? Or the difference between Walrasian and Hicksian demand functions? Let’s be honest. Most successful Ibankers have probably never even heard of these concepts before, and they certainly don’t care. They don’t need to know that for their job. </p>
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<p>Really? That’s a pretty strong statement, don’t you think? According to USNews, the #50 school is Tulane. So you’re saying that somebody in a ‘normal’ major at Harvard has no better chance at getting into Ibanking than somebody from Tulane? Really? Are you sure?</p>
<p>sakky, why do you feel the need to debate every single opinion I or someone else puts up? This is like my fourth post in the past four months where you’ve felt you have to challenge an opinion I have rather than just expressing your own. You know, I and others are allowed to express our opinions on here without having to spend time defending it against your attacks every single time we post. For example, your recent diatribe against MSUDad was uncalled for when all he was trying to do was give some general advice (and as a lawyer, he was much more knowlegeable on the subject of law and law careers than most people, I would think). </p>
<p>Many people, such as myself, do have some knowledge of the Investment Banking field. Personally I worked for a brokerage firm while still in college over 20 years ago and have worked directly for or provided financial consulting services for eight different Fortune 500 firms since. In all of these positions I have presented to senior executives or the Board of Directors on a regular basis. In my current Director of Finance position for a publicly-listed startup, I deal with major venture capitalists and banking groups on a regular basis here in the Silicon Valley–so I feel that my opinion is based on a bit of experience in the field. </p>
<p>As far as discussing who is most likely to get the job–it is superfluous anyway, since as indicated in the analysis I mentioned above, if you aren’t taking at least some technical courses, you aren’t getting hired regardless of your school. However, I think it’s funny you should mention Harvard versus Tulane–primarily since there are many recent Tulane graduates who attended classes at Harvard, Yale, MIT, and Penn for a year while their school was being rebuilt after Hurricane Katrina. </p>
<p>But I would be curious about why you believe a Harvard grad with a degree in Spanish literature is much better qualified to take a IB job than an IB candidate majoring in Spanish literature at Tulane?–I’d really like to know? The IB firms are going to look for the same things in both candidates–good public speaking skills, good reasoning ability, the ability to analyze well, the ability to lead, and the ability to get along well with others. </p>
<p>Do you honestly believe that Harvard and the other Ivies have a monopoly on these skills? If that’s your belief, then you are sadly mistaken. These skills can be found in students at all 50 of the top schools–as you will soon discover upon graduation. </p>
<p>I’m going to end here and presume we can just agree to disagree–because I really don’t see the need for this to turn into one more, long, off-topic debate on a subject different from what the OP was asking about. </p>
<p>Anyway, enough about Harvard or Ivy-league schools. Let’s get back to the original OP question–which was “How does FMI at Michigan State compare to Indiana University’s program”. If you’ll recall, my original comments were related to that–and the ones you attacked were merely sideline comments regarding barron’s comparison of Wharton IB students versus Indiana Kelley school IB Workshop students. So let’s not hijack the thread.</p>
<p>Uh, first of all, what exactly is wrong with debate? Isn’t that the whole point of a discussion board - to be able to freely debate issues of which you disagree, hence allowing the readers to form their own opinion about what the truth is?</p>
<p>Look, you are perfectly free to express your opinions. On the other hand, I am free to express mine, and it just so happens that I disagree with your characterization of the Ibanking industry. I don’t see anything wrong with that. There wouldn’t be any point to even having a discussion board if people were not free to disagree. </p>
<p>Regarding MSUDad, I think he’s old enough to defend himself. If he has opinions regarding the law career, then he should be able to present data that supports his opinions when questioned. Furthermore, it is not only I that questioned him on his assertions - basically every single subsequent poster on that thread did the same.</p>
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<p>Well, not to make an overtly political statement, but the Bush Administration hired some of the most experienced military and foreign policy experts in the country to express their opinions…yet look at what ultimately happened with Iraq. What ultimately matters is not experience per se, but rather judgment. </p>
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<p>But that’s not what you said before - you specifically named Harvard Economics courses, and like I said, with the exception of the econometrics and financial economics sequences of courses, I completely fail to see what the relevance is of the vast majority of Harvard economics courses has to do with investment banking. </p>
<p>If you still disagree, then just ask yourself exactly how many practicing investment bankers can actually compute a General Equilibrium model (or heck, who even know what it is). Yet GE is the crown jewel of modern economic theory. It is the way that economists connect micro with macro. Let’s face it. The vast majority of Ibankers don’t know what GE is, and don’t care. </p>
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<p>I find it hardly funny at all, because at the end of the day, they are still going to be getting degrees from Tulane. </p>
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<p>Uh, that’s not the question on the table. The question is not whether they are truly “better qualified” but whether they even have the opportunity to interview at all. You can’t get the job no matter how qualified you are if you can’t even get the interview. See below. </p>
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<p>Uh, ad-hominem attacks? I graduated a long time ago and I know the world quite well. Calcruzer, you don’t know anything about me personally, and you think you do, then I’m afraid that you are the one who is sadly mistaken.</p>
<p>Now, to your point, what Harvard brings to the table is a nexus between students and recruiters. Ibankers and other financial services recruiters are absolutely teeming at Harvard. Heck, even students at MIT, which is just a couple of miles away, sometimes have to go to Harvard in order to interview with Ibanking recruiters. Couple that with the fact that many Harvard students are themselves extremely well-connected with the finance industry and can therefore provide social networking opportunities to get into the industry. For example, I know a guy who just recently got an offer at a boutique, for which he got an interview only because his housemate’s older brother works there and hence was able to get him in. In fact, that’s the reality of employment in general - it’s not so much what you know but who you know, and social networks are king. {In fact, that is why every single job-seeker’s book or website advises that you use your network, for that is and always will be the best way to find a job.} </p>
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<p>Uh, if that’s how you really felt,and you really wanted to end the discussion, then why did you bother to reply to me at all? </p>
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<p>I see that you acknowledge that you were the one who made the sideline comments. Therefore it is not I that hijacked the thread. You were the one that introduced another topic, not I.</p>