Ideas For A Smart Kid Who Might End Up With Limited EC's

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi Everyone,</p>

<p>I'm new to this site. I've ended up here a couple of times through google searches, but just signed up tonight.</p>

<p>This is a very wide open question. I'm not looking for one specific college, but was thinking that with all of the accumulated knowledge here, people might be able to point me to some target schools that could be a fit for my daughter.</p>

<p>She's a freshman in High School. I'm starting pretty early. She wants to get into the best college she can get into, but at 15, I don't think she realizes how much is involved in getting into one of the top schools. Her average so far is 97. but she has only finished one quarter of her first year. I think she's smart enough, and driven enough to keep her average in the 96 - 97 range. She's in all honors courses, and she's taking Geometry.</p>

<p>I'm not worried about her grades, but after reading some of the posts here, I'm concerned that she won't be interested in doing the amount of EC's that some of the very driven students here are doing. For example, I can't see her entering academic competitions over the summer, or joining a bunch of clubs at school. She wants to do charity work, and she runs track, but I can't really see her doing much more than that. She's just not that kind of kid, and I don't really want to talk her into it if she doesn't want to do it on her own. I would rather try to get her to adjust her expectations, and shoot for schools that are more of a natural fit, unless that means going way down the rankings to a mediocre school.</p>

<p>I guess my main question is the following:</p>

<p>How far down in the rankings do you have to go, to get to the point where you can get admitted with strong grades and strong SAT's, but limited EC's? She's white, and is strongest in Math and Science.</p>

<p>I think schools like Boston College, Fordham, Bucknell, and Vassar could be within reach with her grades, but are schools like these going to expect tons of EC's? Am I right that a 96 - 97 average is enough to get into these schools if the SAT scores match?</p>

<p>Here's another question. I don't think she's willing to work around the clock just to get into a slightly better school. So there's probably a limited number of hours she's going to be willing to put toward either EC's or better scores. Would she be better off putting those hours into more EC's or putting them into practicing like crazy for the SAT's?</p>

<p>Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.</p>

2

<p>Her most important priority now is to do well in her high school courses.</p>

<p>For test scores, there is likely a point of diminishing returns when it comes to test preparation. So doing some preparation to at least familiarize oneself with the tests and doing some focused preparation on weak areas that are revealed in practice testing may give a high return, but endless studying beyond that may give a much lower return.</p>

<p>For ECs, the level of achievement in the ECs is likely the most important factor.</p>

<p>But what is probably one of the most important factors in shaping her application list is the cost constraint. Figure out what you, as the parent, can contribute to her college costs. Then run the net price calculators at each possible school to see if their net prices after financial aid will be low enough to make them affordable. If need-based financial aid at expensive schools is not generally sufficient, she will need to build her application list around merit scholarships and/or low cost schools. As she is in 9th grade now, you do have a few more years to save up some more money if needed to be able to afford the parent contribution needed to send her to desired schools.</p>

3

<p>this is good advice, and your attitude as a parent is right on, too. Let your child grow up as she grows up. Make opportunities available for her to develop leadership and achievement. But if leadership’s not her thing, or achievement at a state or national level is not her desire, no point pushing it because she has to be allowed to create the person she will be. Encourage her, help her, but don’t push her because you’ll find her pushing back and you’ll get nowhere when that happens. She’s doing great in school. Encourage that. After three years, she’ll have told you if she wants to go to an ivy. Here’s a response from an ivy admissions officer (@northstarmom) about what constitutes extracurriculars that interest ivies:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/210497-those-ecs-are-weak-so-what-s-good-p1.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/210497-those-ecs-are-weak-so-what-s-good-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>They’re incredible. You can see that well over 99% of high school students will have no interest in the kind of work it takes to accomplish these things, all while maintaining the best grades and scoring in the 99th percentile on standardized tests. The good news is that the 100 or 200 schools beneath the ivies are as good to almost as good as the ivies. Even better news, smart kids get great educations wherever they go, whatever you can afford.</p>

4

<p>At the VAST majority of colleges in the nation, you don’t have to be president of 5 clubs and do two varsity sports plus cure AIDS in order to get admitted. Most colleges admit more than half their students, and most colleges take high school students with a reasonable amount of extracurricular activity.</p>

<p>She likes to do charity work and community service, and she runs track. I think that’s totally fine. I wish there wasn’t such an imperative for kids to do three trillion ECs these days, because it means they never sleep! She could do service hours on the weekend and maybe join a group at school for students who like to do service. I think schools like Fordham, and probably Bucknell and Vassar and BC, would have more realistic expectations especially if she’s got high grades and scores.</p>

5

<p>Other than for the super elite schools, doing community service and running track should be fine as ECs. I’d encourage her to find one or two community service clubs at the HS and get involved now – hopefully she can work her way towards getting a leadership position for her senior year (even a smaller one). Colleges say they want depth of activity rather than someone who does a tiny bit for a ton of different clubs so if she keeps focused on a few things, shows commitment, and eventually some level of leadership in them she should be fine. </p>

6

<p>Thanks very much for all of the great replies everyone. I feel a lot better about this now. I was getting ready to send her to community college after reading one of those EC threads :-)</p>

<p>She’s currently in the LEO club. Does anyone know if this is good?</p>

<p>Also, she loves animals, so she wants to do something with animal shelters.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>I totally agree. Honestly, when she first told me that she wanted to get into an elite school, I was very happy, because it was coming from her, and I thought it would be great. But after reading some threads here about getting into the Ivys, I think she would feel very out of place and be miserable at an Ivy. When do these kids have time for a social life if they’re in all these EC’s.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Yes, even though she’s very motivated, I felt her pushing back when I started showing more interest in her grades and her thoughts about colleges - hence my screen name :-)</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>I would love to say that this isn’t a factor, but I’m afraid it’s going to be.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>She told me today that she’s in Mu Alpha Theta, and that she tutors other kids. I didn’t know she did that. Do you think this is valuable as an EC? She likes doing it, so I’m going to encourage her to continue, but I’m just wondering if this is as valuable as working with a charity that helps needy people, for example.</p>

7

<p>Let her live her life and don’t worry so much. Tutoring is wonderful.</p>

8

<p>Yes, definitely trying to let her live her life, but just want to make sure I’m paying attention to what she might need to do now in order to get what she wants later.</p>

<p>She doesn’t seem to be worried at all, and her expectations are high. I just don’t want to see her get disappointed later. She has a lot of other things on her mind now, but I clearly don’t :-)</p>

9

<p>For large State universities, EC’s matter very little, so depending on your home state your daughter may have an easy safety in hand.</p>

<p>For selective medium sized privates – in the 5000 to 8000 student range – the importance of ECs is variable. Some are more statistics driven, some are more accomplishment driven. It seems to me that those that focus on math/science, CS and tech, put less weight on ECs. For the Ivies and some of the other super-selectives, ECs are very significant.</p>

<p>For small LACs, especially the more selective, ECs can be the deal breaker. These schools are not looking for a laundry list of clubs and positions; they are looking for a way to understand what makes the applicant tick. What s/he does when s/he’s not in class. What s/he can contribute to the campus community. In a small campus population, being involved in more than EC is a plus.</p>

<p>I agree it would be counter productive to force your daughter into activities that she has no interest in just for the sake of padding her resume; however, I think in the next 3 years she could easily expand and deepen those incipient interests that she’s already drawn to.</p>

<p>To me, devoting time to whatever interests her would be a better investment that agonizing over the SAT or ACT. Take a prep course, and plan to take the test twice. That should do it. </p>

<p>The dictum to remember is that the most selective colleges are looking for interesting people who do interesting things. They don’t have to be student council presidents or team captains, but they do have to exhibit an in depth interest in something – could be community service, could be arts, could be something to do with animal welfare, could be tutoring. </p>

<p>A consistent participation in track, even if she’s not a recruitable athlete, is a good addendum, especially at colleges where sports and outdoorsy activities are an important part of the culture.</p>

<p>I think that LEO Club, tutoring, animal shelters could all be seeds of excellent ECs. She just needs to think about how to take any of these raw interests and expand and enhance them into activities that help define who she is.</p>

<p>Think of it as developing a capsule characteristic: E.G., The young woman in the sciences who runs and who set up a neighborhood animal shelter.</p>

<p>If you’re going to need financial aid in order for her to attend a private college/university, now is not too early to begin understanding the options available to you. Run a few net price calculators to see how you do on need-based aid. If it looks as if need-based aid will be workable for your family then your daughter can put together a wide list of schools. </p>

<p>If on the other hand, you come up short with need-based aid, then you (and she) need to research schools that are generous with merit aid. This will be a very different list from the need-only schools.</p>

<p>If all of this sounds like Greek to you, take heart: it gets easier as you get deeper into the process and you’ve plenty of time.</p>

10

<p>@momrath, thanks for this very detailed and helpful reply.</p>

<p>I think my daughter would do best at a small college, with small classes, and a lot of support from her professors.</p>

<p>That sounds like a LAC, which is why I’m worried about EC’s.</p>

<p>I have no idea what she’ll end up wanting to study, but given her strength in math and science, I can picture her leaning toward Computer Science, Applied Math, or one of the natural sciences. </p>

<p>That brings up an interesting question. I think your point about math/science schools being less interested in EC’s makes a lot of sense. Do you know if a school like Bucknell or Lehigh would be more stats driven than other LAC’s?
I would think so, but I have no idea.</p>

<p>I’m going to take your advice, and the advice of the other people who have replied, and encourage her to get heavily involved in the things she’s already shown an interest in.</p>

<p>I don’t think we’ll qualify for Financial Aid, but I’m going to check finaid.org. Are there any other sites like this that you would recommend?</p>

<p>We live in the NYC area, and I don’t think we have any State schools that would be a good fit, but I can’t afford private college. I’m thinking about looking for a staff position at Fordham, Stevens Institute, or Manhattan College. That’s why I’m starting this process so early.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all of the great information.</p>

11

<p>Yes, LACs do admit holistically, not necessarily because of traditional ECs but because of multi-faceted, subjective factors. So you daughter should think about fleshing out that thumb-nail descriptor, reinforced by essays, recommendations, resumes. For more selective LACs, she’ll needs to jump off the page as a 3 dimensional person, with deep and focused interests. At 15 it’s quite normal that those interests haven’t developed yet, but over the next few years, she should be identifying and pursuing a few that she’s attracted to.</p>

<p>Actually, it sounds as if she has quite a few interests that could be expanded to compelling ECs.</p>

<p>I don’t have any insider information on Lehigh or Bucknell. They are both in the medium range of selectivity (30%ish) so if your daughter ends up with high GPA/scores/rank, they could be considered matches.</p>

<p>The most important factor in determining what is or isn’t affordable, is to understand the difference between need-based and merit aid. Run a few net price calculators (found on the individual schools’ websites) and see how the need based aid comes out. If it appears that need-based aid isn’t going to be enough, then you need to start looking for schools that offer merit.</p>

<p>Some of the most selective private colleges and universities – the Ivies, MIT, Stanford, Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, and plenty of others in the Northeast – are need-only. This means no merit, period. Your financial situation could change in the next few years – and who knows, the schools’ policies could change too, but for now, if the NPCs indicate that you won’t get enough need based aid to make it worthwhile, then widen your list beyond need-only schools!</p>

<p>The good news is that there are quite a few academically respectable LACs that are also generous with merit, many for women in the sciences. For starters look at Grinnell, Rhodes, Davidson, Smith, Holyoke. There are others that you can find in the thread on the top of the Parents Forum “Schools that are known for good merit aid.”</p>

12

<p>Wow, thanks @momrath, this is great information. I’m going to get busy researching.</p>