<p>Almost every post I’ve read about students and or families choosing Alabama over another school includes reference to the staggering cost the family would incur if the student attended school elsewhere. I’m just wondering . . . what if the cost were the same, would you still choose Alabama?</p>
<p>Honestly, ds only originally applied to UA bc of the presidential scholarship and as a back up plan. However, he visited and met with the dean. The dean spent over an hour with him and ds really liked what he had to say (far better than at a couple of other schools. At one school, one he originally thought he’d love to attend, ds asked the dean and the undergrad advisor where their students went to grad school and neither of them had a clue. Yikes…eliminated that school off the list since grad school is definitely his goal!). During his visit to UA, he sat in on an upper level class. Again, he liked what he saw.</p>
<p>He visited the school 2 more times, one being the CBHP finalist weekend. He liked the people he met, the opportunities it offered, etc. I never in a million yrs would have guessed at the beginning of the application process that he would be Bama bound in the fall, but he is and very excited about his choice.</p>
<p>This question reminds me of the short story, Harrison Bergeron, by Kurt Vonnegut. </p>
<p>Cost is and always will be an issue in any educational choice - if not in pure $$$ terms, then sometimes in opportunity cost terms - because education is a commodity to which consumers attribute a certain value. Every commodity has value, even if its cost is completely ‘free’. Don’t confuse cost with value. You don’t know the true value of something until you’ve ‘bought’ it. Therefore, I believe we can only answer this question with hindsight. And with that hindsight, YES, we will still pick Alabama. Without hindsight, your question is hypothetical and moot. </p>
<p>You will find very few people w/ regrets on this forum, regarding their UA decision. VERY few. </p>
<p>@aeromom, you are right about hindsight. I agree. My pt was really that cost wasn’t the only reason ds opted to attend UA. There was more to his decision-making process than strictly $$, but $ was the only reason he initially applied.</p>
<p>Agreed. I can honestly say that Bama never would have been on our list if it hadn’t been for the scholarship opportunities. As an OOS student, it would have been unaffordable to us - therefore, cost was definitely part of the equation. DS never would have looked at the school - especially because VA does have a number of very good in-state options. Since he hasn’t started attending yet, I can’t address how we will feel this time next year about his experience and whether it would have been “worth it” regardless of cost. As aeromom pointed out - it’s sort of a moot point, since cost of school was part of the overall decision making process. I do have high hopes that DS will have as positive experience as the majority of the folks I’ve talked to.</p>
<p>At this point in time, it would not be. There are a large number of schools that don’t make our list because there is no striking reason for them to do so, Cost is an issue. But there are also a lot of other schools where my student could probably get a good sized award that do not make our list even if that is the case. UA also is a national flagship university. It has the name recognition, in part for its top football team, and so, it’s not like considering going to say Southeast Alabama State Tech, or such school (made the name up) where most all of the kids are likely commuters and from a few miles radius of the school. So , as was once said, “one for the money, two for the show”. </p>
<p>@cptofthehouse </p>
<p>Cpt…is your youngest considering Bama? have you visited?</p>
<p>Okay, let me try again . . . although I think my opening post was clear, even if the thread title wasn’t.</p>
<p>There’ a thread at the top of this forum entitled, “What schools did your child pass on in order to attend Alabama?” Almost all, if not all, of the responses mention cost. That’s fine - saving money is a good thing. So, in that vein, I am sure there are kids who’d be full pay at any number of schools who are getting a really good deal by attending Bama.</p>
<p>Here’s my question (only for students who have already attended Bama for a year or more, or their parents): If your cost at UA were the same as your cost at Princeton, Columbia, Swarthmore, Williams, would you, knowing what you know now, still choose Bama? If so, why?</p>
<p>In other words, are there advantages to UA, other than cost, that make it a better environment in one way or another than what you could expect to have found at the other schools that were perhaps higher on your original wish list? Are you finding you have opportunities at Bama that you might not have had elsewhere? Are you getting more personal attention from faculty and administrators than you’d have enjoyed at that Ivy? Do you have more class choices than your friends at “elite LAC”? And are your classes just as interesting, and your classmates just as motivated, as what your friends at “elite LAC” are describing?</p>
<p>And, on the flip side, are there any disadvantages to attending UA? Something you were hoping to find/do/experience at college that might have been possible elsewhere, but is not possible at Alabama?</p>
<p>All schools have their advantage, whether its more research opportunities, active alumni that will help you get internships, college recognition, etc., but most are not apparent until you get into the school and see what is offered. My oldest just graduated from the University of Minnesota. There are alot of things that I like about UMN over Alabama, but there are alot of things I like about UA over UMN. I am not familiar with other schools so I can just address my experience with these two. My two students were also NMFs so their experiences might be different than those who were not in the honors programs.</p>
<p>University of Alabama is definitely more generous with accepting APs, CLEP and dual credits, consequently my UA student entered the University with enough credits to be almost at junior level, and after 3 semester, was considered a senior. He actually could have graduated after 2 years with his CS degree but has added a second major (math) and entered the University Scholars program instead. He believes that through this program, he will have his Masters in CS, as well as his undergrad degree in both CS and Math in 4 years. He decided to go to UA in April of his hs year, so did not apply for the Computer Based Honors Prgoram and was not aware of Emerging Scholars until it was too late. Both are wonderful research opportunities. Also the STEM to MBA is a 5 year program that many schools do not offer. My UA son did not have a lot of lower level classes so is not aware of “big” they may be (he took honors for the few he had which are smaller classes) but for his upper level CS and Math classes the classes are anywhere between 20 and 40 students. Despite being quiet, his professors do know his name and he was able to get some needed recommendations. Last semester, despite the size of the school, my son had 5 of his 6 classes in the SAME ROOM (but with different professors.) UA has a wonderful football team and has lots of energy on game day. For those who are not going Greek, you can find some “social things” but in my opinion, not as much as Minnesota. UA offered AA, OA, Camp 1831 for their freshman although the % of those who do this is small compared to the freshman class (still its great for those who do.) The Week of Welcome is for everyone and is nice although not as impressive as what I have heard from other freshman at other schools. Suite dorms are wonderful but expensive…they are one of the reasons my UA son wanted to go there as he really needed his own space but wanted to be with roommates. Going out of the dorm for food is not convenient (UMN offers a cafetaria in every dorm) but the food is good (at least for my son as I’m not a good cook) although breakfast is only offered at one location. Freshman have to get the unlimited food plan, but the cost is less than what my UMN paid for his 19 a week meal plan.</p>
<p>Comparing this to University of Minnesota (which is a much larger school), my ENGINEERING son (not CS so its not apples to apples) was able to only enter his freshman year with about 16 credits. Even though he got a 5 on his Physics C AP test, they suggested he take it over for foundation purposes. None of his Project Lead the Way HS credits were accepted. He took an average of 16 credit hours per semester (my UA son took an average of 2-4 more) and it has taken him the entire 4 years to graduate. He was in the honors classes for his core classes and he had anywhere from 100 to 200 students in these. These met 5 days a week, M, W, Friday for lecture, and Tues. and Thurs. in smaller groups with the TA so alot of his classes were every day. In his upper level classes, it was not unusual to have 100-150 in these. In his major, they ME professors did know him as they called him by name at the ME commencement ceremony, but I don’t think he had the same professor twice. Some professors were very difficult. Even the the College of Engineering class had an average ACT of 32, these students worked hard for their As and Bs. My UMN son thrived in this environment. He had ALOT of choices for his senior project as a hospital is on premise, and the city of Minneapolis is just a 10 minutes bus or train ride away and offers ALOT of opportunities. This is also very helpful for those who want an internship, coops, or just a job to pay for college. UMN has 3 campuses (the east bank, the west bank and St. Paul) where you might have classes. (There is a bus to get around, just like UA’s Crimson Ride.) Once you get in your major though, most of your classes are in the same building. Greek life is not a big thing at UMN which could be considered good or bad depending on your point of view. The Union is the hub of social life for at least the freshman. There is always something going on, whether its bowling, a karaoke or a get-together in the Gopher Lounge, comedians or musicians playing in the big conference room, or turning that room into a roller skating rink. Movies that are starting to go to video are played for free each weekend at the theater there. Popcorn, nachos and drinks are inexpensive. The freshman move in and start 5 days before the rest of the students for their week of welcome. They are put in different groups and learn about the campus and explore different places. They are also put in one group (about 5000 students) for a welcome, for a pep rally etc. They even go to the Mall of America after it closes to go on the rides.</p>
<p>My 3rd son is going to UA. He does not like the urban feeling of UMN (my second UA son said he could picture himself there as well as UA). My 3rd son is going for engineering. I feel he probably will thrive on a smaller environment and get better grades. In 2 to 4 years I could probably give you and apples to apples comparison but I am guessing S3 will take 4 years to get his degree too. </p>
<p>This is probably more than what you wanted but I am very happy my UA son is at Alabama. Educationally he thriving there. Socially is not as active as I wish, but he is hanging out with the other CS and STEM students, is in 3 or 4 clubs/activities, and is happy (He is a quiet kid and I don’t think his experience would be any different wherever he went, except for the fact that he is now REALLY INTO FOOTBALL whereas if he went to UMN, he probably would not be.) My UMN student had a great experience there and I would recommend that school too. Again all schools have their plus and minuses depending on the person judging.</p>
<p>,<<
If your cost at UA were the same as your cost at Princeton, Columbia, Swarthmore, Williams, would you, knowing what you know now, still choose Bama? If so, why?
<<<</p>
<p>I’m not sure that is a fair question. If costs were the same, nearly anyone would choose Princeton (usually #1 or #2 in the nation) or some other very-highly ranked school, unless there was some odd compelling thing …like…hate cold weather, or need to be near family in the south, have a disability and need to be by my alabama doctors, etc. i actually know a top student with a very rare condition who went to bama because her specialist is in Bham.</p>
<p>I think a more fair question might be asking if you would choose Bama over a school ranked about 40-60, if costs were the same.</p>
<p>I can tell you that there are a number of Calif kids who chose Bama over other higher ranking UCs…and are paying MORE for Bama because they wanted the big sports atmosphere and didnt get into UCLA or Cal…but did get into UCSD, UCi, UCD, etc. </p>
<p>This thread really continues to confound me. We can’t say what would have happened if our kid(s) had chosen a different school, because they didn’t! Our students did not make those other choices, so we can’t tell you anything relevant about foregone opportunities. We can only weigh in on what has happened for them at UA to date. Further, UA is not an elite LAC, so we can’t even make that sort of comparison.</p>
<p>That said, this forum is replete with stories as to why students/families are so pleased w/ UA as their choice (regardless of what they are paying for it). There are numerous threads in this forum which espouse the benefits of attending UA, from the beautiful campus, to the personal attention given, to class and professor quality, to the many opportunities our students have been given. UA goes out of its freaking way to accommodate all reasonable requests by students to make their educational experience the best possible one, leading to their personal success. </p>
<p>In Georgia we have the Hope Scholarship which pays for almost all of the tuition at our state schools. That would include some of the top public schools in the country - specifically Georgia Tech and the University of Georgia. </p>
<p>In our situation, the cost to attend the University of Alabama was about the same as it would be for my DS to attend GaTech or UGA (perhaps a bit cheaper at UA due to the engineering scholarship). However, for many reasons that are often cited on this forum, we all liked UA better than either of these excellent schools. </p>
<p>He just finished his freshman year and there are no regrets in having selected UA other than for me in that he’s 3.5 hours’ drive away from home versus 45 minutes (GaTech). </p>
<p>@dodgersmom, I think part of what’s difficult in answering you is that most kids looking at elite LACs aren’t ALSO considering OOS flagships. There were a handful of families whom I chatted with and were very helpful in this regard, but they certainly aren’t the norm. We are an odd bunch, I guess! :-D</p>
<p>In the end, after weighing all our son’s offers that were in our price range, he had a choice between our in-state flagship (Penn State) at full cost ($34,000/year) to study engineering, a selective liberal arts college in the Midwest that offered very generous FA (COA of $29,000/yr) where he would have majored in math or physics, and Bama. </p>
<p>He’s a Presidential Scholar, but accepted his offer of admission way too late to apply for some of the more elite honors programs (which are AMAZING and on par with Schreyer at Penn State). But the combination of the honors program and being able to study engineering was what caused him to choose Bama. Even though I was secretly rooting for Bama all along, my husband and I were willing and prepared to pay for PSU or the LAC if our son felt they were a better fit. All three were terrific opportunities. Our son much preferred Bama to Penn State and decided he really wanted to study engineering, not do a 3-2 program. I hope that helps a little!</p>
<p>As far as families who’ve already been at the school a year, I hope @Longhaul will weigh in! </p>
<p>"“that most kids looking at elite LACs aren’t ALSO considering OOS flagships.”"</p>
<p>this is probably also very true for those looking at elite private univs unless the OOS flagship is Cal, UCLA, or UVA</p>
<p>^^^Except I think a kid from the northeast interested in engineering, for example, might consider Princeton, MIT, Cal and use Bama as an affordable safety. It’s less likely to find a kid looking to study math or physics at a Swarthmore, Pomona, Williams, Carleton, Reed or Macalester, who’d use Bama as the safety–they might look at St. Olaf or Lawrence as safeties with the potential for merit aid, or the LACs with engineeing like Union, Lafayette or Bucknell, or publics like St. Mary’s of Maryland, SUNY Geneseo or New College of Florida rather than an Alabama. </p>
<p>true, there are some…especially some NMFs that use Bama as a back up financial safety. Bama has gotten som of those kids when their top-school FA pkgs havent provided enough,</p>
<p>Thank you to @kjcphmom, @ThorEric, @LucieTheLakie and others who’ve provided thoughtful replies.</p>
<p>I disagree with M2CK that rank beats all else (except maybe football), or that kids considering elite schools would not also consider UA. That’s the point of the scholarships after all, isn’t it - to lure those high stat’s kids to Bama?</p>
<p>What surprises me is that none of you is willing to go so far as to suggest that perhaps some of the UA programs are special enough that they might be worth choosing UA over the elite school, even where costs are equal (and football isn’t a consideration 
). I’m thinking CBHP, UFE, Scholars, STEM Path to MBA. As @kjcphmom pointed out above, the combination of AP credit and accelerated programming gives Bama kids some unique advantages. The mentoring available to CBHP and UFE kids seems like it could be a distinct advantage, as well. Perhaps I’m shortchanging the personal attention that kids receive at elite colleges, but when I attended one myself back in the day, I don’t recall that anyone went particularly out of their way to look out for me (other than my advisor after I selected my major). Being one of the handful of UFE or CBHP students seems to me like it could have real advantages over being one of 3 - 5,000 high-achieving students at the elite school.</p>
<p>The CBHP and UFE programs, among others, also provide a mini-honors college within the honors college, which might be a reasonable alternative for a kid seeking the intimacy of a small LAC.</p>
<p><<<
I disagree with M2CK that rank beats all else </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I don’t think that I suggested that “rank beats all else.” i even supplied examples where it didn’t. </p>
<p>My post implied that an extremely high ranking school with same cost would likely trump Bama unless there was some extenuating circumstance…and I think that is pretty much true.</p>
<p>I don’t think rank beats all else because i mentioned knowing some who are paying MORE at Bama even tho they were accepted to their cheaper higher ranking UCs …like Davis, Irvine, San Diego. </p>
<p>There were a few posts last month, as the May 1 deadline was fast approaching, of a kid trying to decide between Schreyer (Penn State’s extremely competitive honors program) and Swarthmore. It was a tough choice because the kid was premed and was torn between opportunities (and wasn’t sure which would end up costing more over four years). I think he chose Schreyer in the end, but I may be confusing him with another student with a similar dilemma. (His parents were pushing Schreyer IIRC.)</p>
<p>These types of posts are not THAT uncommon on CC in general, where there are so many kids and so many schools one kid might be choosing from, but I haven’t seen a lot in the Bama forums. (I suspect that will change in future years as the word gets out about these elite programs within the honors college)</p>
<p>Along those lines, IF a student were admitted to UFE or CBHP or STEM Path to MBA (and had the Presidential or NMF scholarship since it would be a prerequisite to apply to those programs), and also offered excellent FA at one of those elite LACS, it would be a tough choice, no doubt, and the student’s intended major and possible career choices would play a major role. You’d have to visit both and go with your gut. I don’t see how either could be a bad choice, however.</p>
<p>My son really thought he wanted a LAC but was open to a vibrant university, as long as it was strong in the liberal arts (he didn’t want a “techy” school) in case he changed his mind about engineering and because his outside interests are geared more towards the performing arts. In that regard, Bama was much more to his liking than Penn State. The LAC just felt too limiting for him–both academically, because he realized he really wants to give engineering a try*, and socially because of its size. </p>
<p>*Thank you, Steve Shepard, in Bama’s mechanical engineering department, for helping him see himself as an engineer!</p>
<p>We could afford to send D to every school she applied to. I cannot say for certain how much cost entered into her decision. We told her we would happily send her to any of the schools she applied to (all large state flagships, and she was accepted to all), but that if she was choosing a school that hadn’t offered any scholarship, she should do a cost benefit analysis and make sure she thought the difference was worth it. It came down to Bama and a school that had offered no scholarship and would have been about $100,000 more over 4 years. She chose Bama. Her second choice school was higher rated and closer to home, and I suspect she would have an easier time finding a job if she graduated from that school as it is very well known and respected in our area. We never discussed her decision process so I really don’t know if cost was a factor or not - I have a sneaking suspicion she chose Bama for the dorms rather than the scholarship. </p>
<p>However, although she ultimately chose Bama, I was the one who put Alabama on her list of schools in the first place. But for that, she never would have applied, and I probably would not have put it on the list if not for the scholarships. But now that she’s been at Bama for two great years, I can honestly say that even if we were full pay at Alabama I would have no regrets. </p>