If HADES is the BS equivalent of HYP+MS...

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
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<p>The Greene’s Guide to Boarding School’s says it straight up</p>

<p>PICK A BOARDING SCHOOL WHERE YOUR CHILD WILL BE IN THE TOP THIRD OF THE CLASS</p>

<p>Because confidence, mastery, time for strong extracurriculars all come to top thirders. </p>

<p>HADES does not improve HYP-MS chances. In fact, it is better to be a star in a little known public school than to be below the top 10% in HADES. HYP-MS together do not take more than 60 kids a year from any one school, even from an A/E. Once you factor in the legacies, athletic recruits and “hooks”, it takes being at the very top of a HADES class to have a better than average chance at HYP-MS.</p>

<p>HADES offers many wonderful educational advantages to students, which I am not knocking (my child goes to one), but HYP-MS admission is not the reason to go.</p>

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<p>THANK YOU for posting that, 2prepMom!! It makes me feel that our family made the right choice. Our daughter will be going to a “hidden gem” (though still well-known and highly-respected) school that seems to fit her in every way. She’s an outstanding student with a 95% SSAT score, and she might well have been admitted to a HADES or similar school, but we wanted her to feel comfortable and successful in high school. I’d rather have her be in the top 10% of this lovely school than be a less-successful student elsewhere.</p>

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<p>^^I agree with 2prepmom on her assessment of the analysis of HADES leading to HYPMS (although that’s not why/how HYPMS was introduced for the purpose of this thread). It is a common theme on prep school forum though that HYPMS is NOT the purpose of attending BS, and one should never judge a school’s value based on how it helps their HYPMS chances. Just remember, a great number of kids will not be able to make their ways to top 15% of HADES, or top 5% of a lower tier BS, or top 1% of their PS. Where should they go?</p>

<p>@7D, what you said about college safeties is true, but there are other reasons why families don’t invest heavily in BS search…</p>

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<p>@2prepMom: While my reason for starting the thread was not about the relationship between HADES admission and HYP+MS matriculation, I agree with you about not making HYP+MS admission the reason for choosing one of the super selective BS. </p>

<p>However, I wouldn’t say that all of the BS prospects who come across this board understand that the two things aren’t necessarily connected.</p>

<p>I don’t know how I feel about the Greene’s guide advice, though. This has been discussed in other threads before. I personally would not object to my child (first or second) going to a school that really requires her to work hard to even be average. This could certainly apply to my college career at a non-HYP Ivy! But again, maybe this one of those situations where you really can’t compare college to BS.</p>

<p>@DA: You were surprisingly easy on me! Thanks.</p>

<p>My point has never been that the superselective schools aren’t great. They must be doing something right to generate the reputations, endowments, and applicant pools that they enjoy. It’s more that there are many ways to skin a BS education…and to consider only the most selective may not be the wisest strategy if you’re truly interested in gaining admission.</p>

<p>As for most people having an acceptable backup in their public high school (with many exceptions, of course), I could argue that so does every high school Senior in their public or local college.</p>

<p>[REPOSTED AFTER DA’S COMMENT FOR BETTER THREAD FLOW.]</p>

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<p>Parents shouldn’t have to refer to “hidden gem” schools apologetically. Truth be told, outside of prep school circles, most people don’t the difference between Phillips Andover and a Phillips screwdriver.</p>

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<p>^ True. And I like the way you put it!</p>

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<p>Just for the sake of argument, do you care about the opinion of someone who has no interest and zero knowledge of BS? It would probably be a topic off limit anyway. And, people are giving too much credit to the acronom HADES than it deserves. Obviously, not all the applicants to these schools were inspired by the term or even CC to do so thus driving the admit rate down and yield up. </p>

<p>Bottom line: If you seriously intend to go to a BS, apply to a good mix of schools with varying admit rates, but if you believe only a few (and they don’t have to be HADES) deserve your attention, fine but you are forewarned, and you’d better have a good backup plan!</p>

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<p>Our son was accepted at the two schools with the lowest admit rate this cycle (13%) - Deerfield and Thacher - along with two other “hidden gems” schools - Loomis Chaffee and Ridley College.</p>

<p>He ultimately chose to attend Thacher. Why? Because <em>for him</em> it was the best school. He would have done well at any of these schools, and he only applied to schools that we would be happy with him attending if he was accepted. He did not apply to any other “acronym” schools, because for various reasons, he did not think they “fit" him as well as the other schools.</p>

<p>Yes, I do believe it comes down to “fit” - and I also believe it takes some effort to try and figure that out.</p>

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<p>I wonder if the whole premise of this discussion isn’t off. The admit rates at all of the schools we’ve been discussing suggest that students are, in fact, applying to a variety of schools outside the HADES acronym, including those Hidden Gems. 7dad, I’m curious: what’s the basis for your concern that they are not?</p>

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<p>@classicalmama: My intent in starting this thread was simply to couch the “I’m applying exclusively to hyper-selectve schools” notion in terms of colleges instead of boarding schools. I think the wisdom of the “widen your net” school of thought is more easily understandable when you think of HYPMS vs. HADES. And yes, I understand it’s apples to oranges, but they’re both still fruits…right? ;-)</p>

<p>Another story that informs my POV…this past January, I chimed in on a thread an applicant had started, cautioning the OP against the “I’m applying exclusively to hyper selective schools” approach. Here is an excerpt of what the applicant had to say in reply: “If I do not try for the schools that make me excited inside, then what’s the point?” I’m pretty sure the applicant was not accepted at any school to which he/she applied. Maybe his/her outcome would have been different had he/she considered a wider range? I’m not saying that doing so is a guarantee of success, but I think it can’t hurt to try and find some other less selective schools to “get excited about”. I know for a fact that there are dozens of “second tier” (quotes intentional and ironic) schools can offer an educational experience that kicks the stuffing out of most public high schools. Most certainly the one in our sending district.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I just took a quick scan of the 2012 Results thread and found the following among the reported results (which I think skew toward the positive, as those with not-so-great news to report may not report at all):</p>

<p>Accepted: Waitlisted: Andover, Deerfield, Choate, Hotchkiss, St. Paul’s, Groton Rejected: Loomis
Accepted: none Waitlisted: Choate, Hotchkiss Denied: Andover, Exeter
Accepted: Waitlisted: Denied: Groton, Hotchkiss, Exeter, St. Paul’s
Accepted: Waitlisted: Deerfield, Hotchkiss, Choate, Taft; Denied:
Accepted: Waitlisted: Andover, Choate, Deerfield, Groton, Hotchkiss, SPS, Denied:
Accepted: Waitlisted: Deerfield Denied: St. Paul’s
Accepted: Waitlisted: Andover, Exeter; Denied:
Accepted: Waitlisted: Loomis Chaffee Denied: Choate, St. Paul’s
Accepted: Waitlisted: Andover, Deerfield, Hotchkiss, Choate Denied: Exeter
Accepted: Waitlisted: Hotchkiss, Exeter Denied: Andover, Lawrenceville</p>

<p>Perhaps some of these folks would see at least one school in that accepted column if they had broadened their scope?</p>

<p>And how many chances threads contain language like this: “Chances for Andover, Exeter, Groton, Deerfield, Choate, or Milton?” (Don’t check now, the “Chances” sub forum seems to be clogged with NCSSM threads at the moment…)</p>

<p>To paraphrase DA, I have no horse in this race (at least this year). I’m simply trying to help more kids increase their chances of receiving a fat envelope on March 10.</p>

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<p>Okay. I’m not sure the chances threads are as meaningful because I assume the kids who bother to write chances posts are asking about their chances for pie in the sky schools, not the ones they think they’re likely to get into. But your other data is interesting.</p>

<p>Still, having gone through this process with a child who applied to a “safer school” along with three highly selective schools, I think that if we did it again, knowing now how much bs strains our budget, even with generous FA, and how much we miss having our kid around, we’d think twice about sending our next kid to a school that wasn’t pie in the sky. While that “second tier” school would undoubtedly be considerably better than my child’s public school, I’m not sure it would be good enough to balance out the financial/family sacrifice. So that might be a decent enough reason to apply only to the highest tier schools. </p>

<p>Also, in our particular situtation, we weren’t interested in applying to schools with under 30% of students on significant financial aid because we didn’t want our kid to feel like a total outlier or the poor scholarship kid. That took out a whole pile of those less competitive schools. </p>

<p>I don’t disagree with your contention that students should widen their nets. I just think there may be more reasons why they consider those schools their best or only choices than just a famous name.</p>

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<p>I would also add my contention from a few years back, that the more schools kids apply to, the more kids wind up on the waitlist. If schools don’t know who is applying “for real” and who is applying in the hopes of spreading the net wide, they will more and more waitlist kids. That does not serve anyone well.
One needs to balance the list of schools that one is applying to, in terms of reach target over target, but kids pick such random schools that one wonders if they care about fit at all. If they have Andover on their list, then its presumed they are comfortable with a large, not so structured, high pressure school. Then why do they have Groton on the list, which, while high pressure, is small and very regimented? And on and on. Thats just one example.</p>

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<p>@mhmm: Agree on “one needs to balance the list” though I could also argue that a kid/family might like Andover for reason X and Groton for reason Y…and both reasons could be important to that kid/family.</p>

<p>@classicalmama: I don’t ordinarily consider myself a cynical person, but I’ve read the words “prestigious” and “top-tier” in enough prospective applicant posts to think that the “name brand” thing plays a not-so-insignificant role in how some folks put together their apply-to lists.</p>

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<p>@7D: I think there is also a regional issue here. Our approach is similar to Classicalmama’s. It does not make much sense for us to attend a boarding school a thousand miles away without offering DC significant advantage over our local schools (public or private). However if you live in New England/Mid-Atlantic, the perspective would be vastly different.</p>

<p>Also I have a sense that kids on this board are disportionately from west/south/mid-west/international. Those from New England/Mid-Atlantic are much better informed and they are the majority of applicants for boarding schools often discussed here. In a sense, this board most likely is not representative of the applicant pool at large and tends to be less informed (such as myself before I went through two cycles).</p>

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<p>Disagree. My unscientific take is that >75% of the kids/parents on this board live in NE or Mid-Atlantic or internatational, 15% in CA, 10% elsewhere in U.S. I also don’t really buy the “much better informed” argument, maybe a little, but not much.</p>

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<p>I would say that while families from the NE region are more FAMILIAR with the idea of BS, that does NOT make them more “informed.” For many (most?) 13-15 year-olds the “name brand” culture extends from clothing to sports paraphernalia to schools. Guidance from a thoughtful adult, as 7Dad is trying to provide here, is paramount. </p>

<p>I beg to differ slightly from classicalmama in that, while the vast majority of BSs are infinitely better than our local options, being in the top 30% is a much better place to be for a young adolescent far from home. But this is, of course, assuming that the disparity between local options and most BSs is more than significant, which is not necessarily something we all agree on.</p>

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<p>Yup, that’s me. I really, really wanted to apply to some less selective and hidden gem schools. Besides providing top-notch educations, they are also less competitive and easier to be accepted into. but I started the process pretty late (early fall) and my parents wouldn’t let me apply to these…</p>

<p>After M10, I actually did compare applying to A/E, H, and L’ville to only applying to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT. It’s not smart. My scores, EC’s, essays, recommendations, were all very strong, BUT I am an Asian female needing FA. Triple whammy, ugh. I’ve learned such invaluable lessons for college applications and life in general. It’s not always fair, you just have to play the cards you have been dealt. I didn’t know how much it would hurt me to be an Asian female applying for FA, to the most selective schools in the country. </p>

<p>I’m not reapplying. This process took up my entire year. I’m staying where I am, though… starting new, time-consuming EC’s, taking the most rigorous classes available next year to (hopefully) be valedictorian, using these letters as motivation to work, work, work. I hope future applicants can use my story as a lesson to the stupid mistake of only applying to the most selective schools. I’m not going to wallow over this, though. Everything happens for a reason. I can’t wait to see where I’ll be attending college in five years. I have so much advance preparation for the app process. Future applicants everywhere, WIDEN YOUR NETS IF YOU REALLY WANT TO ATTEND BOARDING SCHOOL. I can’t say this enough.</p>

<p>-98</p>

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<p>Having lurked on the board for about a year this is the first time i have been motivated to respond, or even join the site. We have a different perspective.</p>

<p>Our son is entering one of the HADES schools next fall as a 9th grader. He chose to apply for a greater challenge. We are midwest, in a suburb of a large city, our local HS is quite good although we are not happy with some of the changes being driven by NCLB. High performing kids are being given fewer opportunities so more can be done with lower performing kids. </p>

<p>I never would have thought about boarding school, i was Public and state uni. My wife went to a HADES school for 11/12 and then college. </p>

<p>Our son applied to only one school and was fortunate enough to be accepted. His, and our, view is that this school offers enough of a jump to the the overall level of academics that it was worth the other costs (monetary, social, familial and developmental). He is 99% ssat, straight a’s, several atypical and deep ECs</p>

<p>In fact our view is that he will gain more from this education than he will in a HYPMS or other college, and that this takes some of the pressure off in the college application process. Mind you we don’t think he can or should slack off in college, just that the basic ability to think critically, communicate, and work with others will be set, allowing him the freedom to follow the best path as a college student. </p>

<p>The goal is the education and thinking skill, not just going to boarding school, or getting a better shot at a college.</p>

<p>Finally, i read lots of posts about the rise in applications and corresponding drop in acceptance rates. I wonder how much is a consequence of NCLB and its impact on what public schools can devote to higher level kids. It is what got us think about boarding school.</p>

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<p>If our experience is any indication, the East Coast kids are “much better informed” in that they have at least heard of these schools and have some vague idea that they are prestigious or less prestigious. In my neck of the woods, hardly anyone has heard of any of them–boarding school is a place to send troubled kids–so those, like my kid, who are applying, aren’t really affected by the name brand thing. But the East Coast kids may well not be better informed in terms of how many schools there are out there that will provide a great education. </p>

<p>98Beebee. That post made this thread a keeper. I appreciate your honesty. You will do well.</p>

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<p>@kidsparent</p>

<p>Welcome, nice post and also agree with the value of a BS education apart from HYP-MS admission, and have not been disappointed so far (end of first year). We are also from the Midwest and a common response is “what did you do wrong” - as in sent to reform school. </p>

<p>@98bee</p>

<p>I also think we should make your post a keeper, maybe the moderator can pin it as an important message for next year’s applicants. You truly have had a valuable experience which may be worth mentioning in a college essay!</p>