<p>Speaking from personal exprience, I’m with kidsparent and I think many others who have good local options are as well, but 98beebee has a typical case of what 7D is trying to address. And I hope this thread will be helpful to future 98beebee’s.</p>
<p>What I think HADES offers over 2nd tier schools:</p>
<p>1) Elite student body. The schools attract the most applicants; therefore, the schools can cherry-pick within their huge applicant pool. The eliteness of the students is a mixed blessing-- it will be that much more difficult to stand out from the pack,</p>
<p>2) Fat endowment. There reaches a point where the high quality of the teaching is not distingishably better at one good school vs another good school, just like the fundamental road-handling of well-engineered cars is not significantly superior for a Mercedes vs a Lexus. But the fat endowment pays for the deluxe features: the leather seats, tinted glass, power windows. Let’s face it: are an ice hockey rink and planetarium really a prerequisite for a high quality education? The richest schools have endowments huge enough that ALL their students could attend for free, but that’s not what happens. These schools elect to go with greater operating expenditure per student</p>
<p>3) Blingy brand appeal</p>
<p>What HADES definitely does not offer:
A higher probability of getting into HYPMS</p>
<p>
Well, certainly not for everyone, but it really depends. After all, these schools do routinely send kids to those colleges while in some poor schools it only happens rarely - maybe one in a few years. For the kids who get the right opportunities that they wouldn’t get in their local options, it could provide them a higher probability of getting in those colleges. On the other hand, for some others who would have opportunities and be bigger fish in smaller ponds back home, going to a HADES could actually hurt. So when talking about the whole student body, it may be a “washout”, - neither help nor hurt, but for every individual the effect can be different.</p>
<p>GMT - are there Tier 1 non-HADES schools in your view?</p>
<p>Cogent “Kids, thousands of them, go to college with the ability to think and communicate from many public schools. Newton and Einstein didn’t go to boarding schools.”</p>
<p>Pretty big leap to assume I was implying that you cannot learn this in a public school. I never said that. I do, however, think that there are more chances to learn and develop these skills as the school my son Will be attending.</p>
<p>Of course, I agree with you Cogent, but there are some who equate HADES and Tier 1, with every other school some degree of second best.</p>
<p>@Cogent: In this context, 98beebee’s case is typical in that for valid reasons she should’ve but didn’t “cast a wide net” (vs. some people apply only to a few schools "on purpose), which is exactly what 7D is addressing.</p>
<p>@Parlabane: While endowment, college placement, famous alumni, selectivity, etc. are factored in the “tiers” determination, it is no science but rather more of a popularity contest. People who don’t buy the tier distinctions among schools should feel free to lump all 300+ boarding schools into one big happy family of tier 1! :)</p>
<p>Our D applied to 7 schools - 4 tier 1, 1 rising super school and 2 hidden gems - our PRIMARY reason for her applying to the first 4 was FA - she was waitlisted at all but hidden gems, FA waitlisted at 1 hidden gem and substantial FA at other hidden gem but still not enough $ for us. We requested addition al FA and received it Hooray! With the next kid we will probably apply to 1 or 2 tier 1 s chools and the rest will be those quietschools that no one talks about but who are doing greatthings. We know are D will have a great experience where she is at and as she wrote in her waitlist letters : I want to go to your school NOT because I want to go to an Ivy league but because I want an Ivy League Mind - We think she caN do that and be happy at the hidden gem.</p>
<p>@outdoorgirl: Even the “tier” thing bothers me…I mean, how would a student/parent feel if someone else called the kid a “second tier” applicant?</p>
<p>There are a number of lesser known schools that have a lot of money to give…it just takes some legwork to find out who they are. Look for schools with a high percentage of FA students and a significant average grant. Then review the school’s website and marketing materials to determine if it might be a good fit.</p>
<p>To steer clear of “pumping” (promoting a school with which you have an affiliation) allegations, I’ll cite Culver as an example. According to their school profile, a third of the students receive financial aid…with another 12% receiving merit scholarships…so that’s 45% of the student body on FA, some of it substantial. </p>
<p>And here’s another example: at George School, 47% receive FA, with the average grant per boarder $32k (towards a tuition of $45k). </p>
<p>Both schools have great facilities, relatively robust endowments, famous/successful graduates, and stronger college matriculation than your average public school. But unless you’re from the Mid-West, Culver may not be on your radar. If you’re not a Quaker or from the NJ/Eastern PA area, you may have never heard of George.</p>
<p>I’m not saying either of these schools is easy to get into…but I’m pretty sure they have a higher admit % than the “usual suspects”.</p>
<p>FYI, I found the info on both of the schools above in less than 3 minutes using something called the internet. Assembling a list of schools “you can get excited about” with more favorable rates of admission takes effort, but could result in better news come March 10th. Your mileage, of course, may vary.</p>
<p>I don’t like the tier I - II etc either but it seems to be ingrained and IF rankingis what prevents some from applying to. lesser known schools then all the better tor those of us willing to recognize that many schools outside of HADEs can be great matches for our kids and they are no less promising because they attend one of these schools!</p>
<p>@Parlabane</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, what Cogent said. </p>
<p>“Tier 1” to me connotes a very, very selective admit rate and a fat endowment that affords the deluxe facilities, which describes schools besides the 5 initials in HADES</p>
<p>GMT - I’m not trying to box you in…well, just a little. Most parents on this site have some way of ranking schools in their head, different balances of fit and stats, per se. While I agree with you that large endowments per student do confer material differences (wasn’t ready to pull the trigger on the word “advantages”), I wondered what non-HADES schools qualify for Tier 1 in your mind using whatever factors you use.</p>
<p>Schools considered “more desirable” are that way because the rabid rush to apply allows the schools to cherry pick the students. If students enter already at the top of the charts - how can one prove that senior year stats are the result of the academics of the school versus the innate ability of the student? Our local school does the same thing, requires a certain score to “test” into the school, weeds out low/non performers, then crows about being "#1 in test scores and college matriculation. </p>
<p>It’s an age old trick. Pick the brightest kids, then brag to funders that the school is the “best.”</p>
<p>I was visiting Exeter this month and one of the Faculty said he’d hate to have to live off the difference between any of the NE boarding schools. It’s just not as broad as people believe. In other words - pick the school that best fits the students needs - don’t choose based on “prestige” because for the most part, they’re all providing academic opportunities well in excess of what most students would get if they stayed home.</p>
<p>The idea of “ranking” schools based on “tiers” is ridiculous.</p>
<p>There is nothing ridiculous about the idea of “tiers”. It’s a concept that has been used to describe educational institutions for a long time. What’s ridiculous is to call anything you disagree “ridiculous”. Again, it’s a choice or belief. If you don’t buy the idea of “tiers”, feel free to lump all the schools as equals, but don’t react aggressively to people who don’t have the same belief. Frankly, it indicates that you have a “second tier mentality”, regardless if your school is “second tier”.</p>
<p>The Exeter faculty memeber who said “he’d hate to have to live off the difference between any of the NE boarding schools” doesn’t know the ABC of running a business and lacks a historical perspective. The schools have invested heavily over time and have done a lot of right things to build their image and reputation. To attend a school away from home at such a young age is not a light decision. The fact that they can cherry pick their students show the trust they have gained from families through years and years of hard work. Please stop trying to drag the front runners down but rather focus on how to make the best use of whatever options you have based on your needs and ‘belief’.</p>
<p>One of the things I looked at on Boarding School Review was, as Exie points out, the difference between entering SSAT average and final SAT score. That tells a story too. Schools that start high and end high could be accused of cherry-picking, but schools that start lower and end higher demonstrate something compelling too.</p>
<p>“schools that start lower and end higher demonstrate something compelling too.”</p>
<p>Well, one must consider attrition. Students may find they can’t handle the work. Also, I believe it’s the SSAT score of the entering freshman class, and the SAT score of the graduating senior class. They aren’t the same people. You’d need to compare the scores of the same class (and allow for attrition) to know whether the school had any influence. Even then, it wouldn’t be very helpful, as much of the instruction in a good prep school is not aimed at improving SAT scores (nor should it be.)</p>
<p>Just wondering, what is an example of a school that “starts lower and ends higher.” I thought the scores were always correlative.</p>
<p>@Exie: as a parent with kids attending one of those “prestige” schools, I am troubled by your implication that students in those schools are going after fame, not fit. You went to Exeter and MIT yourself, two of the most “prestige” schools, and no one accused you of going after fame. Granted, many kids on this board are influenced by the fame factor. However “fit” is a two-way street. If the school doesn’t think the kid is a fit to them, that’s the end of it. I am all for parents to guide kids to apply to their “fit” schools, but don’t have to be dismissive to kids who believe one of those “prestige” schools is their 'fit".</p>
<p>“It’s an age old trick. Pick the brightest kids, then brag to funders that the school is the ‘best’”. You were implying (1). Those schools somehow gained their fames with no apparent reasons, or they haven’t done anything deserving for their “fames”; (2). Other schools just don’t want to “pick the brightest kids” and then “brag” about it. I am afraid neither of them was borne out by reality. </p>
<p>It’s a great thing that we have such a variety of BS schools serving the needs of different kids. There is nothing wrong that some of schools are more academic or have resouces to offer more opportunities to kids. Judging from this year’s admissions, all schools are doing pretty well in their respective universe.</p>
<p>I asked GMT about tiers to test my belief that many users of this site are motivated more by the prestige of perceived tiers than they care to admit. There is a reason why US News and World Reports ranks schools, or any major city’s magazine has a “Best Of” issue; rankings are like catnip for those who need a third party to confirm their sense of self and the brilliance of their child (they go hand-in-hand usually.)</p>
<p>I think it’s wrong-headed to say that the HADES schools have earned their front-runner, top tier status if, in the same breath, you’re implying that some of the non-HADES schools have fallen short by comparison, the Grotons, the Thachers, the St. Andrews etc., because they have not “earned” it. </p>
<p>DAndrew, you dismiss out of hand “The Exeter faculty member who said “he’d hate to have to live off the difference between any of the NE boarding schools” because he doesn’t know the ABC of running a business and lacks a historical perspective.” To me, that faculty member’s comment rings entirely true. The differences are too slight between the quality of students at the HADES schools and those at many Hidden Gems to support what seems to me to be your narrowly constructed view of “front runner” status.</p>
<p>Enemyof the sun: Concord Academy goes from 84% SSAT (though when I first started perusing BSR in 2009 it was more like 80%) to the very top (2071 SAT). Periwinkle: yes, attrition and class identity account for some of the differences between SSAT and SAT percentile, but having watched this site now for three years, the year-to-year test score averages don’t vary that much. The Concord example shows some shift upward in SSAT percentile, but most don’t change much. </p>
<p>There is certainly a broad spectrum of reasons and strategies for BS applications, but I think that one of the goals of this discourse, to free some kids from unconscious concern with perceived prestige that can ultimately set them up to be unnecessarily hurt, is a noble one.</p>