<p>DANG, I knew I'd catch it for that remark!!</p>
<p>Casual, you understand my point I hope. All we can do is pray that our children can at least support themselves for their own well-being and for the $$ we're shelling out!</p>
<p>I am a big supporter of liberal arts education and am just fine with d. exploring her interests without serious regard for "what she wants to be when she grows up". She has worked since she was 14, every summer, and will figure it all out for herself far better than with any push from her 'rents.</p>
<p>The fact that he showed his ignorance of his nephew's major is an indictment of the boss, not the major.</p>
<p>JNM 123-- The CEO of Procter and Gamble has a BA in History from Hamilton college (and started a PhD in Renaissance studies before he enlisted in the navy) The CEO of Disney has a BA in English Literature from Denison. The CEO of American Express has a BA in History from Bowdoin. Is this enough economic reality for you??? Hope your boss is in the same league as these three... otherwise, feel free to ignore his ignorant comment.</p>
<p>And Ted Turner was a classics major....</p>
<p>didn't alan greenspan attend julliard?</p>
<p>Jnm123, I am going to be really obnoxious here (apologies to all), but I double majored in art history and philosophy and I make over $300,000 a year in business consulting NOT related to art history or philosophy!</p>
<p>Tell THAT to your boss!</p>
<p>okay Nedad and Casual Responder -- what EXACTLY do you do? How did you get there? I venture a guess that most graduates who major in art history, are considering a career at least related -- publishing, gallery, museum, etc. The same holds true for all the famous CEO's who majored in classics or English (or whatever). I doubt they went into college with their current career plan in mind. I dare say most got to where they are through a little luck, a lot of people skills (good or bad), a fortunate (or unfortunate) change of plans somewhere along the way, etc. I don't think their education was wasted, but nor do I think it prepared them for their careers. That came with experience, work, luck, connections etc. It may have even come about because they found they couldn't do much with their classics major, so had to get a job in a business to make a living.</p>
<p>I agree you should follow what you love. But I also think it is at least smart to consider what you think you might do to "make a living" as well.</p>
<p>I never had any intention of doing anything with art history - I just liked it. I majored in philosophy because it was the best possible training in logic (math is good too but philosophy requires a different kind of writing and articulating abilities, plus maturity - which is why we see tons of little kid math whizzes but NO child prodigies in the humanities).</p>
<p>I don't think I had an "unfortunate" change of plans ....I just followed my interests. I STRONGLY believe my undergrad work prepared me for my career by teaching me to think clearly about extremely difficult issues. I travel all over the country and work with people in federal, state, and municipal governments, as well as in business including Fortune 500 companies, (I do environmental consulting) and I am amazed at how whenever I ask, the most intelligent, thoughtful, articulate people I know have liberal arts backgrounds.</p>
<p>EDIT: That said, I really do not want to reopen the thread about whether liberal arts is "better" than a business degree. This is just one person's opinion from just one perspective, and its only purpose was to respond to the idiocy of that boss who made the remark about art history. It has no other purpose - not to start fights or anything else!</p>
<p>Philosophy prepares you by training you in logic and it also encourages you to ask big picture questions - something a CEO should do! I would go so far as to say, it makes you think of strategy more than tactics...I could be wrong. :)</p>
<p>Seriously, my son is also interested in Philosphy and Art History at the moment and when I say this to people in India, they give me the 'poor you' look.....like 'you will have a long struggle ahead' kind of. :)</p>
<p>I don't want to drag down the topic. I am only curious how and why you ended up where you are. How did you end up consulting for environmental issues? Your expertise in this particular area certainly didn't come from the philosophy degree. You are obviously an intelligent and articulate person, and would probably do well in any field. But somewhere along the way, you must have become interested in environmental issues. Your path just took a little longer perhaps. Others might know up front that they want to pursue environmental education, and look for a college which offers that. </p>
<p>I agree that philosophy is great training. But so too can be many majors. I've been told the same is true for architectural education (problem solving, looking at the big picture as well as the small details, cooperative learning, etc.). And, I know many architecture majors who have gone on to bigger and better things. BUT... that was NOT their original plan.</p>
<p>You're right, Achat. The problem is that many people think philosophy is something extremely vague, asking questions like "What is the meaning of life?" Instead, philosophy is actually very precise. My philosophy of mathematics course, in which we learned Godel's Proof of the Incompleteness of Arithmetic, was harder than any math course I ever took. Also, I find that the vast majority of mistakes people make in reasoning are due to the fact that they know nothing about philosophy of language and the different uses of language. Case in point: an embarrassingly bad recent op-ed piece by a Yale (!) psychology professor who had no idea how religious language is used, and imagined that educated religious people view the concept of "God" as something on a par with the tooth fairy.</p>
<p>A really good philosophy department can provide a fantastic background for almost any field that requires high-level thinking. BTW when I was in school, the most common BA for future doctors was philosophy.</p>
<p>In answer to kjofkw's question, I am on my third "career" working with college undergraduates who run a non-profit. My first career was a decade managing the ticket operations of a large arts center. In between I spent a decade building a development program for a child welfare agency. I firmly believe positive people skills, strong writing and communications, and passion for non-profits are all transferrable management skills. When I advise students, I always encourage them to follow their passion and let them know the a-traditional career paths are often the most interesting . . . .</p>
<p>The way I look at it, the 3 kids I have who knew exactly what they want to do career wise are in their mid 20's before starting it, and in their late 20's before making much money doing it. And they want to be doctors! How the heck can we expect kids without such specific plans and professions that do not pay as much to be in a slef supporting mode right out of school? I figure that these kids will need at least that much time before they find a job that makes them self sufficient.</p>
<p>This is a great thread Voronwe, and I have printed out Blossom's post on it. Indeed, most kids fall into that category, and worse. Getting them into adulthood with honor, compassion, self sufficiency is the tough job. Kids develop at different rates and take different paths to adulthood and often a rough road is chosen. It is harder for a parent to ride that sort of a path with a kid, and sometimes the end result is not what we want.</p>
<p>Jamimom, you are my CC idol and parent role model (even an anonymous one) so I am humbled.</p>
<p>I quote your halfway house line all the time... guess I owe you a royalty!</p>
<p>This is an interestingly evolved thread.</p>
<p>As someone who majored in English and thinks had she not married someone who majored in Physics she would be living in a cardboard hut over a sidewalk heating vent, I just gave my possibly-Ivy-bound senior a brief been-there-done-that lecture on why he should NOT follow his passion for majoring in English (dang if he didn't get my genes instead of his father's!) and now I need to walk down the hall and tell him I was wrong????</p>
<p>By the way, have any of you read "The Drama of the Gifted Child"?</p>
<p>Now THAT would start an interesting thread here!</p>
<p>DM</p>
<p>I did read that but long long ago "Alice Miller"?
My niece is graduating this year from Colgate in English and is applying for a Gates grant to attend Cambridge, but I worry what will happen to her even if she gets her next degree paid for.
I work every election next to a woman with an English degree from Oxford ( and one from Williams) who doesn't want to teach, and doesn't know what else you "do" with an English degree. ( read I suppose)
My daughter BTW has made a friend at the community college with two young women who both have degrees from smaller schools. One has a degree in English from Wellesley and never wants to look at a book again apparently, she is taking OChem to enter the nursing program. The other has a degree from Washington University and had been working in public policy, but now is just taking classes to get refocused on what she wants to do when she grows up.
I am all for loving what you do, but I think that many of us can be equally happy with a variety of careers, just as we could truthfully be happy with a variety of partners!</p>
<p>Ahhhhh.....this thread!</p>
<p>When my son told his orthopedic surgeon (severely broke a wrist last year - killed his basketball season) that he wanted to major in art history, Doc winked at me across the room and said "and then you'll go to law school like everyone else who does that and get a REAL job" . I felt badly for son. Same old story...nobody takes his intended major seriously. He's taking Philosphy this year...and LOVES it!!! His Philosophy teacher is a Buddhist Monk...and son thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread!`So, I see this path coming in my son's future and can imagine these commenst being commonplace.....</p>
<p>Our older family members are always asking "why don't you want to be a surgeon?"...as though that's what smart kids ALWAYS do. These are the same people who always ask "why not Princeton?".....</p>
<p>Somehow, in my family, going to Princeton and becoming a surgeon would grant you the keys to the kingdom....somehow, everything else warrants a raising of the eyebrows and a "just do your best" comment.</p>
<p>In the past twenty years, American culture has been hit by a weird 'celebrity' meteor. Everyone wants to be famous! For going to Harvard! For winning an Oscar! For producing uber kids! For ECs!! For something! Crikey!</p>
<p>It's a perverted ambition. Fame ruins a perfectly good life, imho. Don't buy the hype....</p>