<p>AFireInside530-
I don't know where you are getting this stuff about the hemorrhaging upstate economy. It seems pretty good to me. I think you will see if you look at the numbers in the NYS budget that NYC is like a black hole for NYS resources.</p>
<p>Western NY is actually warmer than central PA. And I don't think climate should be a major factor. Northern NY in the Adirondacks is pretty cold. But, near Lake Ontario (e.g. Watertown), the temp is more moderate. </p>
<p>My #1 choice would be Jamestown area, a beautiful part of the state. Mayville, at the other end of Chatauqua Lake is known for the Chatauqua Institute which has a seasonal program of lectures, dance, and music.</p>
<p>I don't know where you have been living, but the economy in upstate NY has been doing poorly for years. In Binghamton alone they have lost approximately 18,000 manufacturing jobs since the mid 1980s. IBM and the Endicott Johnson Shoe company left the region and took with them thousands of jobs. Just last year alone abut 1,200 moved out of the Binghamton region because they are not making enough money and they are being taxed to death by NYS. The Average Binghamton Salary is less than the median average at about $32,000 a year. Furthermore this is not restricted to Binghamton. Many people in Rochester are being laid off by Eastman Kodak and in Syracuse when the Carrier Corporation left they also took with them plenty of jobs.</p>
<p>Additionally, NYC is not a black hole for NYS resources because in past years upstate NY has been getting most of the tax dollars from downstate. </p>
<p>After living in upstate NY these past 3 years, I cannot believe your argument that the economy in upstate NY is fine. That is a pipe dream.</p>
<p>Secondly, maybe its warmer in western NY but where I am located in Binghamton (within close proximity to a few SUNY schools) we get a ton of snow and during the winter months most students hibernate because of the weather. From December-Early March it is typically too cold outside to do much of anything. Furthermore, as you travel from downstate to upstate NY it typically gets around 10 degrees colder the further north you travel. What student would choose a freezing icebox to a tropical beach, or even a more temperate climate, to the south.</p>
<p>Lastly, my first choice would be close to NYC. It would attract highly qualified professors and students. It would also provide support and pride for the primarily downstate alumni base. I can't see how suny would improve based on relocating to upstate ny.</p>
<p>AFireInside530-
The unemployment rate in NYC in June was 5.2%, in Binghamton it was 4.4%, in Rochester 4.3%. $32K buys more in Binghamton that $100K in NYC.</p>
<p>Everything near NYC is very expensive. Costs are on a different scale near NYC.</p>
<p>Great faculty will move to a great university. There is Columbia in NYC but there is Cornell in Ithaca, Rochester, Syracuse, RPI in Troy, Colgate in Clinton.</p>
<p>The new Governor has formed a "Higher Education Commission" to look into making the SUNY system comparable in quality to California's. The SUNY system was founded on a different principle in 1948 than states like PA, VA, MI that have a flagship. SUNY was designed to meet regional needs, not create a flagship. I think the state should consider changing that approach. </p>
<p>SUNY needs one highly selective flagship like Berkeley and then a strong system of universities behind it. </p>
<p>Here is something I found on the web:
"Looking to make the state's network of colleges and universities "world-class," Gov. Spitzer has launched a Commission on Higher Education.</p>
<p>"The state's network of outstanding public and private colleges and universities is essential to producing the highly skilled work force that will be a major driver of New York's upstate economy," said Spitzer, calling excellence in higher education "a key to our state's future."</p>
<p>This new panel, he said, will help identify "innovative, cutting-edge ideas and necessary improvements that will help improve the quality of education we deliver and make New York's higher educational system a world-class institution." </p>
<p>Former Cornell University President Hunter Rawlings will head the commission."</p>
<p>I agree that the name should be different, although it is virtually impossible at this point. I go to penn state and anything that carries a "state" name on it does have a negative stigma, epecially for SUNY since there is no main campus and since the names SUNY and CUNY are often associated with mediocre, cheap education</p>
<p>When you look at how the best suny's compare to flagship schools in other states like michigan/virginia/georgia/texas/etc , it is indeed a shame for new york students that can't afford to go to a private institution or get into better schools.</p>
<p>The broad structure of SUNY has long been considered a challenge to transforming it into an elite public institution, like the Universities of California, Michigan, and Wisconsin.</p>
<p>John B. Simpson, president of SUNY at Buffalo, says spreading resources so widely can, for instance, make it hard for the system to focus on developing and financing key academic and research needs at its doctoral universities.</p>
<p>"There is a good deal of everybody gets something," he says, particularly since half of the state's 62 senators have at least one campus in their districts. "It's hard to see the system making major strategic decisions about where to concentrate resources."</p>
<p>I agree with collegehelp's point. A sure way to increase prestige and bring up rankings is to become more selective and recruit an impressive student body. With that, they should redesign the campus with modern facilities/classrooms and do away with the concrete architectue for more appealing buildings.</p>
<p>While re-structuring SUNY, it would be good in my view not to throw away one aspect of the system that (as far as I know) California and most other states do NOT have- namely, a high quality, relatively small, undergraudate-focused option for good students who do not thrive in a huge campus environment. In NY, this role is filled by Geneseo; Maryland has St. Mary's College, New Jersey has TCNJ and Virgina has William and Mary. From what I hear North Carolina is kind of doing that with UNC-Asheville. New York could distinguish itself, not just with one flagship University but by 1) enhancing and possibly expanding Geneseo (by maybe 25-30%), and maybe even: 2) creating a second or third such college to give students a choice not only of size but of location and environment.</p>
<p>weldon-
SUNY Geneseo seems to have been fairly sucessful at transforming into an elite LAC although not on the same level as Wm and Mary. I agree with you. SUNY would benefit from having one or more elite LACs in the mix.</p>
<p>hawkette-
Interesting that you should mention Cornell. Based on what I have been reading on the internet, Cornell has had a strained relationship with SUNY in the past but with new leadership in the state capitol and on the SUNY trustees, the relationship with Cornell has improved. Last year, Cornell helped lobby in the state capitol for SUNY support. And, the new Governor has appointed the former President of Cornell to head his Higher Ed Commission and to seek ways to make SUNY world-class.</p>
<p>However, I don't think Cornell will ever leave the Ivy League.</p>
<p>Cornell wouldn't have to leave the Ivy League. Outstanding public universities are to be found in other conferences that also have private members, U Virginia and U North Carolina are in the ACC with Duke and Wake Forest, UC Berkeley and UCLA are in the Pac 10 with Stanford and U Michigan and U Wisconsin are in the Big 10 with Northwestern. Frankly, I think it would do a lot of good for the Ivy League to have a public member and it could also positively differentiate Cornell from the elitism that some ascribe to the Ivies. Cornellians might see taking on a public label as anathema, but to many on the outside, it would more likely be received as wonderful and long overdue proof that great public educations are available to all, even in the Ivy League.</p>
<p>Hawkette, on the east coast, a lot of people already see Cornell as a pseudo-public school while being attached to a private ivy league school. That doesn't mean it is not a wonderful school but that image is already there. I know students at Binghamton who will no hesitate to say that Cornell is the bottom of the ivy league, which is kind of ridiculous.</p>
<p>columbiahopeful,
I'm not so sure why being a fully public school would be bad for Cornell. As you say, its status today is already unclear in the minds of the public and, as you indicate above, it's already spoken of by some as "the worst of the Ivies." </p>
<p>Size-wise, Cornell is about the same size as U Virginia. The overall quality of students is modestly stronger at Cornell with the biggest difference being that U Virginia must take 67% from Virginia while Cornell does not have that requirement (although the school does have 34% of its students from the state of New York). Take away those statutory differences and I would guess that the differences would melt away. Would having a college the caliber of U Virginia be enough to allow Cornell to stay in the Ivy League or would the other Ivy colleges see the change to full public status as too great a diminution of their collective historical prestige?</p>
<p>Columbiahopeful!-
Your comment brought to mind the tendency for the general public to think of "U Pennsylvania" as a state university, like Penn State. I wonder how widespread that misconception is. By the way, I noticed your CC name is Columbiahopeful but you are at U Penn. Was Columbia your first choice?</p>
<p>I am not sure that the SUNY system needs a "flagship." Overall, it seems that the problem is a lack of money. There was some improvement this year but for many years, the relative amount of money has declined. Over the past 10 years, faculty positions were cut by 1000 while enrollments steadily increased. </p>
<p>SUNY tuition is dirt cheap - at about $4k/year. When it costs much more for room and board than for tuition, something is wrong. It is past time to double the tuition. That will generate some cash for increased aid to those who need it and will greatly increase funding. That should help reduce the 20:1 student:faculty ratios which currently exist at most SUNYs.</p>
<p>Colgate is in Hamilton, NY. Hamilton College is in Clinton, NY, but the concept remains the same, although I'm not sure the COL is more than 3x higher in NYC than Binghamton.</p>
<p>As long as you have a major rift between Upstate and Downstate, you will never have ONE flagship school. A "solution" may be is to designate a Flagship University Center and a Flagship LAC.- as an example SUNY Stony Brook and Geneseo. or U of Buffalo and Old Westbury.<br>
edad- I am going to agree with you on this one. SUNY tuition is ridiculously low (but I am very happy when I get the tuition bill). Those of us that are willing and able to pay more, probably wouldn't think it too harsh to increase tuition to $8,000. Those that need financial assistance can probably receive it from NYS.
I am a SUNY Oswego grad ( and yes, mominva- it has been SUNY since 1948 (?) or as it might have been more commonly referred to as State University College at Oswego/ but ALWAYS with the State U. designation.
I don't remember too many people giving a hoot about what the schools were called. Had lots of friends at Harpur College. They rarely referred to it as SUNY at Binghamton.</p>
<p>Hawkette- what's with you and Cornell?? Cornell has Land Grant Status due to Morrill Act of 1863 (or thereabouts). It must be a terrible burden for Cornell to educate and better the lives of the people of NY. By the way, MIT has Land Grant status too--</p>
<p>ahhh yeah something that would really help would be to increase the tuition.. I'm agree I like it low :) but I go to suny buffalo out of state and its only 10,610 a year! (and I have an awesome scholarhip :D) but thats only about 3000 more than the in state price for my in state school (MD)</p>
<p>In discussing Geneseo we should also mention SUNY Purchase. It has the most national following of any Suny school and offers one of the view state sponsered fine arts colleges. It's too bad it doesn't have more appealing architecture.</p>
<p>I've often wondered (cynical me) if pressure from NY's private schools doesn't keep THE SUNY system from being a more attractive option. How could some of NY's institutions survive if the SUNY's had the appeal of Union, Rochester or Syracuse?</p>
<p>California did not have this problem.</p>
<p>Having just been through the college search with relatives and friends, those who attended classes at Geneseo did not find them competitive with those at elite LAC's FWIW.</p>
<p>Just my personal two cents, I want to affirm that I got an incredible education at Stony Brook, one that compares or surpasses those of colleagues at more elite instutions; this is true of both my undergraduate and graduate degrees. I did not receive the support from my Department that I would have liked, but this had more to do with sexism than the caliber of the faculty. The only reliable support I received was from female faculty. Sorry to highjack thread -- just an aside.</p>
<p>None of you know what you're saying. All of you are proposing that SUNY should do superficial stuff to make itself look better. From dropping the word "state" from its name--btw the acronym "SUNY" stands for State University of New York-- so some pretentious dilettante can better about themselves, to creating a Flagship within a short distance of SUNY Fredonia (Which is 10 miles NW of Jamestown and about 25 miles away from the city of Buffalo), to tearing down all the buildings on each SUNY and replacing them with ones that resemble the academic buildings on SUNY at Buffalo's South Campus, which will do nothing because a truly academically capable student should be to learn regardless of what the campus buildings look like. Other people want SUNY to double its tuition-even though here at UB each student is already charged almost $1700/per year in additional fees in order to be allowed to use any facilities on campus, not to mention many students would not be able to afford to attend college in this state any longer if people thinking that got their way. Some prestige trollops want the SUNY system to be higher ranked, so it can attract students with higher high school stats. Again meaningless, because at most schools if you think what you did in high school matters, you'll be surprised when you find out (at least at UB) only what you do as a college student matters.</p>