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Lord John Grey would be 50 or so, right? And Brianna 20? Because JG is so awesome and clearly played by an actor in his late 30s it doesn’t “feel” as wrong but in real life it’d look lie Brianna is marrying her grandfather. I know it was common then but the optics are softened for us due to how “young” and handsome the LJG actor is."
He’s about 8 yrs younger than Jamie so closer to 40 than 50.
Thanks! I thought he was the same age as Jamie, whom I thought was 49 or 50. So, LJG is 40-41.
I want to know how they are going to manage to squeeze everything into only one more episode. I feel like they would need a 3 hour finale!
Maybe the cut the “book” into Season 4 (1 episode) and start of season 5 (1-2 episodes)??
Hard to believe they’ll finish it all but I thought I spied Claire back with her daughter in the preview. Maybe it will be a longer episode?
I think Graham Greene was one of the Mohawk villagers. He was Kicking Bird in Dances with Wolves.
That episode was a bit too much Roger for me (I’m still mad at him).
Ah Bonnet…I’ve been waiting for the apex of his story and also wonder how they’re going to fit that in.
Loved Fergus and Marsli parts too.
@MYOS1634 I think all of those odd plot points are Diana’s (the book author) and move the plot forward in one way or another…but I agree about the priest’s insistence on not baptizing the baby. Just dumb.
Why didn’t Roger offer to baptize the child? He is the son or stepson of a Reverend isn’t he?
^ adopted son. But not Catholic and I’m guessing this priest wouldn’t have been ok with that…
The priest might not have been OK with it but the villagers might have been.
I don’t remember this incident from the book, but I don’t remember many things from the book! I would think that someone growing up in a rectory or vicarage would consider jumping in themself. Especially considering that he suggested “just say a few words in Latin” to the priest.
It is in the book @greenwitch. It’s my recollection that Roger didn’t realize he could baptize the child until Jamie tells him that it’s an acceptable option in the absence of an ordained priest.
If I take the episode on it’s own I enjoyed it. It was Rik Rankins (Roger’s) best performance (sorry OHmom?). They spent a lot of time focusing on a small back story in the books that doesn’t really move the story forward. My biggest concern is how they will end the season. They are about 2/3rds though the book and there is one episode left. I’m pretty sure the gathering will be eliminated, however, Roger needs to be rescued, Brianna has to have her baby, Claire needs to get back to Brianna from New York, and Roger has a major decision to make. Then there is the created Murtagh angle. Where will his story take them? Unless they give it the Reader’s Digest treatment I’m not sure how they can do it justice.
Any thoughts on the finale?
That Murtaugh…
I read a comment to a recap of the episode where someone objected to the scene where Murtaugh and Jocasta were arguing, only to be seen later in bed together. Rather than finding it offensive, I thought it was hilarious. While they were arguing, DH said “OMG, he’s about to make love to her!” LOL. We got a good chuckle out of it.
That Murtaugh indeed.
I thought the actor who played Ian did a great job…all those emotions showing in his face after he passes the challenge…
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. In the books, Jamie was walking a thin line when he accepted the land under Tryon’s terms, knowing what he did about the future, and his own feelings and intentions as well. All of that is multiplied significantly with Murtaugh added to the picture.
I wonder what Diana G. thinks about the fact that a character she killed off in the first book is still a central character in season 5.
I did think the fight scene during Roger’s rescue was poorly done. I don’t remember-did a band of Mohawk renegades actually help them rescue Roger, even going so far as to attack their own people???
When Claire was sadly informing Roger that Brianna couldn’t go through the stones, my DH was very amused when Jamie piped in “Well, HE still can.” Made me wonder for a moment if he wishes he could make our Ds’ SOs vanish so he wouldn’t have to share them. 
Murtaugh/Jocasta was teased throughout, so that I wasn’t surprised when she looked hurt as she thought his visit was purely “scheming”. The cut from yelling to the bedchamber was a bit too abrupt, one more scene should have been left in, but in my opinion they’d left little stones throughout the season for us to follow.
I like both actors and both characters.
I really liked seeing more of the Mohawk village. I wish there were a featurette all about the village, like, take us around the village and show us what is what, why it’s there, how you found out about it, etc.
It’s truly horrible to imagine this way of life, all the Native American cultures destroyed and erased - and still not taught. Unconsciounable to me.
(I recently learned for instance that Native Americans had become masters in agronomy, their crop yield much, much higher than anything Europeans had managed for the time period. Why isn’t Native American history seriously taught in school, just like you learn about Romans and Egyptians and Ancient Chinese for instance? not as a random Social Studies unit which doesn’t bother distinguishing between Nations but seriously, where Mohawk, Ojibway, and Navajo are taught separately, with specifics? I don’t even think it’s part of APUSH.)
Are we really not going to see Young Ian again?
Couldn’t Claire warn him about what’s going to happen with the French-Indian wars?
The actor for Roger did a great job in this episode. But I still don’t like Roger.
Also, he should go back through the stones, bring stuff back in his pockets like Claire did, and help his family this way. His justification as to why he didn’t go through the stone circle the first time didn’t make sense: he could have gone through as for a hiddey hole, waited a while there and gotten hospital care, then returned 1 week later, healed and no longer a slave to the Mohawks, with a map, compass, and stuff to get back to where Brianna was in his estimation. Perhaps read a history book about the region to get a better handle on what’s going on.
As for the “cliffhanger”, well, Jamie can find a militia and just “never” find Murtagh. It’s not like policing was super efficient in those days.
How is Brianna going to “not marry” Lord John now? I don’t know how this happens. I understand the baby’s birth is going to be ascribed to be post-wedding (just a very big, round baby at his baptism, I guess, seeing how he’ll be 6 months old instead of 3 or something) but… how does the Lord John wedding fit with Roger returning???
All in all, it feels like stuff was cut from the story. I don’t know the book so it could have been like this (minus Murtagh/Jocasta, which is a cool add-on, I hope DG agreed with it and doesn’t distract from what happens in the future) but it’d have benefitted from being a double episode in my opinion.
“I don’t remember-did a band of Mohawk renegades actually help them rescue Roger, even going so far as to attack their own people???”
No that whole episode was done differently in the book. By the time they get to Roger the deal for Ian had been done and Jamie was unaware of it until Ian explained what was occurring. It seems an Mohawk brave had been killed primarily because of the mayhem caused by the whiskey and they would only let them leave when he was replaced.
Spoilers
The Drums of Autumn is a very event filled book. There are major relationship plots and in many ways those of us who love the books were anxious to see how those plots were played out on screen. They did some quite well imo. The Roger/Bree reunion in the 18 C and the Jamie/Bree introduction were both as emotional as I imagined when reading even if they were done differently. There were some epic fails in my opinion. Bree in Lalybroch was a major one and in this last episode not having Claire and Jamie at the birth and Bree’s fear of dying in childbirth and wanting her “Da” (I’ll be all right if you are here) to stay were two of the most egregious. I think a lot of book readers were looking forward to those events.
I have mixed feeling about Murtaugh as well. I always considered Duncan Innis the weak character in the novels. In many ways Murtaugh fits the character so much better especially since he was in love with her older sister. On the other hand I am not so sure I like the use of Murtaugh as a fugitive leader of the regulators. I am guessing that ultimately it might contribute to Jamie changing sides (he does know the future).
Another thing I miss is a populated Fraser’s Ridge. Where is Jamie going to get the men to muster? Will he return in season 5 to a populated Fraser’s Ridge? “The Fiery Cross” takes place largely on the Ridge and while I enjoyed the book the events aren’t as significant as those in “Drums of Autumn”. I am guessing they hope the Jamie/Murtaugh plot will fill it out. We will see in a year.
They have made character and plot changes in previous years but it never seemed like it changed the story until this year. Because of the emotional connection to the characters it felt to me the changes were more significant and where I didn’t like them more egregious. They can still go forward with the story from here.
@MYOS1634 - the French and Indian wars are long over. The show opened saying it was 1770 in NY. The American revolution is about to start and the Iroquois nation will be split over it. Some tribes side with the British, some with the Americans. After the war, many of their villages are burned, whether they were allies or not. They had started by not wanting to side with either, and considering it a civil war.
In the end, the Oneida and the Tuscarora sided with the Americans, the others, with the British.
Don’t worry, we will see Ian again! He is not considered a captive or slave of the village, he is a member.
I DO remember learning some of this in school, maybe because it was part of NY State curriculum. We learned that the Iroquois Nation was considered a model for the US system of federal and state powers. But I also remember learning about how a buffalo hunt was done before there were horses. Not much else.
I grew up in a NYS school system too. We studied various Native American cultures across the US. It was very interesting because they were so different.
I don’t really get the marriage thing with Bree. What’s the point of marrying John if it’s after the baby comes? Wouldn’t they have been better served to get married a few months before the baby arrived rather than a few months after? You can shave a few months off the age of a baby born 4 months after a wedding, but that’s going to be tough to do if the wedding is 4 months after the birth. Now that Roger’s back is he considered her husband? Does that make the baby legitimate?
She had no intentions of really marrying him. She primarily wanted Jocasta off her back. Jocasta kept setting her up with suitors because an unmarried woman with a child would be seen as a shame to both her and Jocasta. Being betrothed to John satisfied Jocasta and I’m sure they could date things however they wished. She and Roger are handfast which in Scottish custom is a legal marriage with the purpose of allowing time to be married by a Priest. I think it’s valid for a year and one month. I think they have a couple of months to make that decision. The shows skews the time line somewhat so it’s hard to tell.
@MYOS1634 Yes, that’s how I remember it in the books. Looks like they’re staying with that in the series, when Roger calls her his wife.
Roger’s “time to think” was rough for me but IMO it was more about coming to terms with having to stay in the past than accepting another guy’s (maybe) baby.
We will 
And I agree his facial expressions in that scene w ere great! As w ere Jamie’s when he thought he’d be leaving Claire again.
BUT you know what confuses me, still? The rules of time travel.
When a time traveler is killed (Otter Tooth, Geillis), it seems they really do die. But are they still in the pasts they traveled to? Apparently yes - everyone remembers Otter Tooth even though he went to the past from the future, and was killed there. Geillis too, had her lasting impact with her baby (not going to say more so as not to spoil for non book readers).
It makes my head hurt, a little.