If you knew then what you know now...

<p>Apply to a range of schools. I can't stress this enough. Do not apply to only Ivies/Ivy-equivelents and safeties. It is very important to apply to some matches, reach-matches, and match-safeties, because reach schools are just that, schools where you have a small chance of getting in. I know so many people in my school who applied to all reaches and a safety (usually Rutgers), and now are stuck going somewhere they really don't like, especially as waitlists they are on begin to close. Also don't get too caught up in your reach schools. You should be equally enthralled with your matches and even some safeties. It will save you dissappointment in April.</p>

<p>"Try to avoid a small or new High School that does not have any clout (or any track record for it's graduates), especially if your child will be a member of one of the first few graduating classes. This is particularly an issue for those who are trying to attend uber-competitive colleges/universities." </p>

<p>I think Iflyjet's viewpoint (post #50) has some validity, particularly the part about uber-competitive colleges. But as the parent of a student who will be in the second graduating class of her performing arts high school, I think there are clear circumstances where the choice to go to a new school is a wise one. In my daughter's case, it was a combination of factors. For her, the fit at her hometown school(s) was very poor; in middle school, when everyone was listening to boy bands and Britney, she was listening to show tunes and classical vocalists. When she was booed at a student talent show after winning with a musical theatre song, I knew it was time to start looking elsewhere. When the school board cut the combined instrumental/choir budget for the elementary, middle and high schools to $16K a year but kept the sports budget at $250K, I knew it was time to look elsewhere. When I met with the GC at the high school (while my daughter was in 8th grade) and found out that not one student from the graduating class for that year was attending an out-of-state college, I knew it was time to look elsewhere. And when I stood up at a school board meeting and publicly questioned there approach to the funding academics, arts, and sports...and subsequently received anonymous, threatening notes in the mail, I knew it was time to look elsewhere.</p>

<p>We were fortunate that "elsewhere" was a public charter school, since affording a private school was not an option. And I've undoubtedly been more hands-on in my daughter's education than I would have been if she had been at a school with a long history. So as long as a parent has their eyes wide open to the potential pitfalls of a new school, I think it is doable. I am very upfront with admissions counselors and have asked more than one if the lack of history at/with my daughter's school will be a problem. Some have indicated that while not a "problem", it could be take some extra intervention on the part of myself or the GC. But more have been open and excited about the possibility; one told me that my daughter's willingness to jump in feet first to a new situation would be viewed in a VERY positive light.</p>

<p>And I have to admit, tonight I am feeling validated. The local newspaper printed the list of val/sal for the hometown high school; 10 kids total with the vals all having 4.0 GPAs. At the graduation ceremony tonight for the first class at my daughter's school, there was one val with a 3.973 GPA. When I asked the principal, she said that as far as she knows there is not a single kid in the school with a 4.0, because the combined academic and arts requirements are tough. Of course, that is precisely the type of information I will ask the GC to be sure to include with any profile she sends.</p>

<p>blip - why do you regret your gap year?</p>

<p>I would concur with starting the search early, sophmore spring break is not too early. We actually started freshman spring break, but skipped sophmore year. </p>

<p>Here is D's latest thoughts on the process....</p>

<p>
[quote]
Further Reflections:
As I think about the process and how I handled it, I feel that it's worth it to note a few things I would have done differently. Most notably, I would have not applied to the following schools: University of Chicago, Middlebury, Scripps, and Williams. Other schools that come close to making that list are Columbia and Dartmouth, although I still think my reasons for applying to those two were justified. Don't apply anywhere you couldn't be ecstatically happy. There's really no point, is there? You MUST find safety schools. But there are safety schools out there that match your needs, personality, and desires better than many of the reach schools you may be tempted to apply to. Girls: I cannot stress enough how cool some of America's women's colleges are. You may think they're not for you and maybe they're not. But they're at least worth a glance and what harm could there be in just visiting one? </p>

<p>I realize that my case is a strange one, but I came up with a core list of schools that I really loved. Ignoring the four exceptions I listed above, I was sad to turn down every school I wasn't able to attend. I'd encourage every high school upperclassman to try to develop a list like this. When you pick a college, no matter which college on your list it ends up being, from the most prestigious to the unknown college close to home, you should be EXCITED. Undoubtedly, you worked very hard to get to the place where you could make a decision about colleges. In my case, it had been a LONG time since there was something in my life that I could get REALLY excited about. Now, everytime I think about my next four years, I can't wait. They can't start soon enough for me. When I devote just a few seconds to thinking about it, I get a huge smile on my face and want to giggle and dance around. It's not because of the H-Bomb. It's because I found a place that I truly think is SUCH a perfect fit for me and is going to give me everything I could have imagined for the next four years, plus some. Whether you get to go to Harvard or Haverford or Hartford or The Barlard School of Clowining, just be sure that it's a place that can make you REALLY excited about what's in store for you and your life. Don't apply to a school if you'd be disappointed to go there. There are too many amazing schools for that. Generate a list of schools that inspire you.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>To echo everyone else:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Apply to less schools. I applied to 8, and even though they were as diverse a bunch as possible (opposite ends of the country, suburban wealthy vs. urban ghettoish, 2k vs. 20k student body), I think I could have lessened the number had I thought about what I wanted more. I would have liked to focus my applications more and specialize each application for each school, but the number almost prevented any of that specialization - you're so focused on pumping them out, you forget to give attention to the minor details. Now, I would applied to 5.</p></li>
<li><p>Stress less. Have more confidence in yourself and that it'll all work out - if you put in the right amount of work and effort, it will. I personally would have liked to include more of my family and friends in the process... I felt very alone at times, and a supportive mentor who understood the process would have been great.</p></li>
<li><p>Make less assumptions about finances. When I started, safeties meant schools that I could get into easily. By the time I ended, I was telling my little brother to apply to financial safeties - schools with very very nice merit packages or 100% need schools that he could breeze into (the latter of which is a rare breed). I also underestimated the amount of aid available for low-income applicants. Had I understood that and the whole college schbang that I was committing myself to, I might have looked into applying ED somewhere. Or at least lowering the number I applied to... </p></li>
<li><p>Stay away from maximizers. You know, people who like to talk about colleges non-stop and stress between Princeton and the local state full ride. It's hard to not pick a favorite college when you talk to people in this mentality, and picking a favorite may detract later from your attitude towards having to attend another equally nice, but appearing-not-so-awesome college.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>From the parental perspective: be less involved, and appear to be even less involved than that. It's about them, as both of mine made clear to us with words and deeds. Then use CC to blow off steam!</p>

<p>calmom:
I am an international student and I came to find about the full details of US college/university application processes only after I completed my high school. I also gave my SATs after my graduation. Therefore I wasn't really geared up for the whole thing.</p>

<p>So the gap year was moreover a result of ignorance towards 'the process' rather than a mere choice for me. Although I have been able to utilize the gap year by working as an intern-journalist in my country's English national daily, I really feel that if I had carried on with all my apps during my senior year, I could have been looking forward to the sophomore year in college right now. And this thought is really appealing to me.</p>

<p>The past 10 months of independence, experiences, interactions, economic sufficiency, professionalism and writing have been an enlightening experiences overall. I really can't find flaws in them. But I think that I would have grown differently (to be specific>academically) during these months if I had made it into the class of 2008. The idea of finishing the college at a young age (although it’s just a year) also has some influence on my chain of thoughts.</p>

<p>However, if one takes a gap year after averting his/her acceptances to next year's sessions, then it won't be much of a problem. But with no acceptance letters at hand and during the entire gap year one has to be submerged in 'the process', and then this pretty much robs the whole essence of a gap year. Without schools and friends around, the entire process might even be overwhelming, extremely daunting and too much occupying as well. One’s mind just gets pinned on to the apps real bad.</p>

<p>I am expressing these thoughts being based only on my experiences with the gap year. They haven't been written to assert any form of generalization on the existing concept of a gap year.</p>

<p>Blip, in the fullness of time, the one-year difference of when you get out of college won't have signified anything. By the time you're 40, you'll have a hard time remembering it. And when you pass 50, you probably won't be <em>able</em> to remember it.</p>

<p>I would have started my applications over the summer. When school started up again in the fall, I was under the stress of schoolwork, SAT II's, and college apps. That's another thing- take the SAT II's as soon as possible. Do not wait until senior year to start taking them.</p>

<p>Basically, there are two things that I did during the college application process that I think made the whole process so much less stressful and in the end reqarding.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Apply early to your reach/match schools. All of my friends used thier early for an Ivy League ED or single-choice EA and ended up getting either flat out rejected or deferred. So not only did they have to try doing applications for other schools with a negative attitude, they also had to waste thier time and money (application fees are horrible) applying to a bunch of in-state schools that they hated but had to apply to, in order to ensure that they would be going to college in Fall 2005. I, on the other hand, applied to my safety/match schools early and already knew in December that I had schools I liked in the bag, and I didn't have to apply to a single in-state school or school I hated because I already had a selection of 3 awesome schools I was more than excited to attend either way. It also gave me more confidence when I did start the applications for my "reach/dream" schools because some of the schools sent me comments on my essays, etc. and I was working with a more positive attitude.</p></li>
<li><p>APPLY TO YOUR DREAM SCHOOL. I almost didn't apply to my dream school because my standarized test scores were EXTREMELY LOW and at least 100 points below thier average SAT or SAT II. But I applied anyway, just to know for sure, and surprise of a lifetime, I was admitted to my top two choices. SO yes, be realistic about where you can get in and have safeties, but never ever rule out a dream school. You NEVER know what can happen....</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I think many good points have been raised... I have to say mostly D did the following things right, because of the good advice we had from friends & older kids & CC: </p>

<p>Start early enough to identify some "favorites" well ahead of ED, just in case you want to do ED. </p>

<p>Round out your list with schools of all selectivity levels that mimic the same qualities that you like best in your favorite school-- size, feel, type of people, atmosphere, location, etc. (If the schools on your list do not have strong common denominators, you may not have thought out "fit" very well yet.)</p>

<p>Investigate the differences between small, medium, and large schools. Know what sort of place is the best fit for you. </p>

<p>Get the essays started in summer, because your writing will improve with revision, revision, revision; this process is much easier with some "time off" in between sessions. The rest of the app is cake, it is those essays that take the most thought & time.</p>

<p>Think about your essay topic-- what would distill the "real you," allowing someone who reads it to feel that he "knows" you? Essays that recapitualte ECs may not do this. Write about something that lets the reader inside you.</p>

<p>Don't be afraid to simplify your ECs. The apps will want you to simplify and discuss the things that MATTER to you, not every thing you have ever done for one hour. </p>

<p>Include a few schools not on either coast or in the boonies. There are so many wonderful schools just a bit off the beaten track. An equivalent caliber school in the midwest can be a "match" instead of a "reach" just because of geographic distribution factors. Remember that though there may be fewer states represented at a regionally well known school, elite students from that whole section of the country are choosing it, and they will be great peers. </p>

<p>It's all well and good to reach for a dream school, but consider it a lottery ticket-- mail it off & then MOVE ON. And do choose a "realistic reach" as opposed to a "not in this lifetime." Do NOT devote more than 30% of your list to this sort of school. </p>

<p>Keep your list a little bit flexible-- don't rule out places that are close to your profile but vary in one or two significant ways. You will be growing and evolving over the next year. Today's "slightly intimidating" school may feel completely comfortable in 2006. </p>

<p>Try to identify EA or rolling schools that fit your vision.</p>

<p>Once you have your list and they are all schools you would really be happy to attend, make sure the schools know this. Visit, stay over night, attend a class-- show the school you have thought your choice out and that you care about getting in there. </p>

<p>For athletes: do not confuse polite encouragement ("You are at the top of my list") with actual enthusiasm ("you are my #1 recruit and I will do this, this, and this for you.") Get in touch with the coaches early (respecting NCAA rules) and ask direct questions.</p>

<p>SBMom, </p>

<p>Just wanted to say nice post. </p>

<p>Alu</p>

<p>SBMom - I agree, nice post!</p>

<p>As a Mom, I want to throw in one caveat for the juniors based on Bandit's daughter, and gphoenix's posts. Their points about applying to fewer schools, and not applying to schools that don't make you ecstatic are very true and very well taken, BUT - at this point in the process, don't beat yourself up about that too much. Some of their ability to recognize the truth in their statements, stems from the self-discovery that is part of this process. If schools aren't moving up and down on your list, and a few new revelations are being made, then you may not be considering your choices carefully enough. Keep listening to what your inner voice is telling you all through the next year.
A shorter list is better, no doubt, it will produce a happier kid, and usually better applications, but don't sacrifice choice for brevity.</p>

<p>Two things I regret about my D's app process:</p>

<p>1) Didn't apply for scholarships on time. There are several available and by that time in the app process, both she and I were sick of me nagging her about deadlines and, in the interest of no more confrontation, I let some scholarship deadlines pass. Would she have gotten them? I don't know but they would have been nice. I did force her to finally do one and lo and behold she got a few more $$ thrown her way. Which makes me regret not putting in for some of the others.</p>

<p>2) As I've said before on this site, my D struggled with depression in high school during the crucial soph-jr years and it showed in her grades. She was adamant about not wanting to talk about it in her application and I think, in retrospect, that might have been a mistake. It probably should have been addressed somewhere - either in an essay or through the GC's recommendation. The one school where she did talk about it was in an interview with the school she goes to now. And the adcom was very clear in telling her that her explanation really cleared things up for them and was the tipping factor in her admissions. I think if there's something in the application that stands out and begs for an explanation, then that explanation should be in there somewhere and be direct about it.</p>

<p>Thanks SBMom and fredo... good posts =) Fredo: I know I've asked this before on another thread, but I had an eating disorder and depression during my junior year (both of which I have recovered from), which really affected my grades. I have since brought them back up. Do you think I should include it in an essay or GC rec, or would it scare them off?</p>

<p>Frankly, I do not think our family would change a thing. Our son did most of his own research and took the SAT once as a junior and once as a senior. We visited most of his top choices during his spring break junior year. He applied to 6 safety/match colleges and was accepted to all with 5 offering merit aid in excess of $15k/yr. And all accepted the common application. While Oberlin College was his first choice, he said he would be happy attending any of the others he applied to which was fortunate because Oberlin offered only a nominal merit scholarship he quickly decided to attend his second choice with no serious regrets.</p>

<p>It was all very simple and stress free process</p>

<p>Overall, there is not too much I would have changed but there are definitely things I think I did right. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>I did some exploring my sophomore summer (went to Southern California and also looked at Stanford which is in my backyard). I wanted to just start getting a feel for a range of schools, large state universities to small LAC's. When I did some "real" visiting the spring of my junior year, I had some basis for selecting the schools I looked at.</p></li>
<li><p>I applied to 8 schools and had a healthy range of "sure bets" to "it's anyone's guess because there are so many applicants." I felt 8 schools was a good number because my top five schools were all hard to get into and you have to consider the randomness of the process. I also go to a small high school and many of my friends, and thus my competition, were applying to some of the same schools. In some way, the 8 applications were made a bit easier because 7 used the common app, but I still had to do additional essays and the topics were too different to rework or reuse essays I had already written.</p></li>
<li><p>I did apply to one school EA and was deferred. It was hard but by the time I was deferred, which I did expect and my GC even predicted it, I was well on my way to completing my other apps. And as some have mentioned, my later apps (or at least the supplemental essays) may have been better than my EA one. But applying EA got me started. It is easy to see the process as a huge mountain and so you procrastinate getting started because you don't think you are going to measure up to the challenge. An early app gets you started.</p></li>
<li><p>Even though I had a "top 5" I think I would have been happy at all of the schools I applied to. However, it is hard not to start feeling some preferences so in the end, I probably would have been disappointed had I only been accepted at my 3 easiest schools to get into.</p></li>
<li><p>I would advise against applying to schools blindly, i.e. without visiting unless you have financial or other constraints. I did a lot of looking on the East Coast because I had some opportunity to visit there and by my final visits I could tell pretty quickly which schools I liked and which I didn't. Coming up with a list of 8 was not particularly difficult.</p></li>
<li><p>I do advise going to see schools after being admitted. For instance, I really loved one school when I visited during the summer but when I went back during admitted students days, I didn't feel nearly as positively as I had before. Conversely, I also went to see a school I was interested in but didn't think I liked as much and ended up liking it a lot more seeing it the second time around. While the admitted students days are full of hype and marketing, I would say that it does give you a chance to meet other kids that may be freshman with you and there is some value in that.</p></li>
<li><p>I was very organized. My mom did a spreadsheet with app deadlines and other stuff and I made a notebook which had a divider pocket thing for each school in which I kept copies of my essays, and any correspondence from the school.</p></li>
<li><p>Finally, I would have to say that trying to find the school that you absolutely love all aspects of can be a tall order. I revisited 3 schools I was accepted to and I could tell you things I loved about each and things I didn't like or was surprised by. Perhaps it made my final decision a little harder but I think I am going with a more realistic perspective.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Also, to the individual who said they were sad that they had to turn down great schools, I can echo that sentiment. I was admitted to great schools, some of which gave me substantial merit money or other opportunities like funded research scholarships. It was hard writing out those postcards telling them I was going somewhere else.</p>

<p>Mezzomom, </p>

<p>It sounds like your daughter found a great school to meet her particular talents, and that is a wonderful thing, and probably the match between HS programs and her individual needs is the predominant factor to focus on here (it is what will make this choice into an advantage for her). But, no matter how strongly a GC words the explanation or writes the school profile, there are still problems with credibility for new schools (and this from adcoms at 12 of the top tier universities/colleges). What makes your situation a little unique it ithe artisitc orientation of her school and (I am assuming) your d's interest in applying to schools with such a major in mind. This, in effect, will be the dominant factor, not really the school profile, and will IMHO be an asset to her in the admissions process, so this is great!! Still, as for annotating a school profile with remarks, no matter how many times a GC writes how "rigorous the grading and demanding the curriculum at our school," the adcoms take it with a large grain of salt when there are few years of stats to support such remarks. Basically, these remarks often meet with specticism. And I say this after direct experience and honest comments from adcoms. You can always PM me for more specific info on this topic.</p>

<p>In any case, it sounds like your d has chosen a great HS experience and one that will enhance her application, much like HSs that specialize in pre-engineering, pre-med, or other technical fields. I am assuming she has not graduated yet, so good luck in the admission process.</p>

<p>iflyjets -- assuming that a new high school opening up offers some sort of unique or specialized program that a student is attracted to..... which is more important? The student's experiences during the formative teenage high school years? or whether the student ends up at an extremely selective college, or at somewhat less selective college?</p>

<p>I don't have an answer to the "which is more important" question that would apply to everyone -- but I know that in my own family, the answer would be to focus on the high school years. Both of my kids attended magnet/alternative highs - neither was a new program, so that wasn't the main issue - but both high schools had factors that could be seen as potential negatives in terms of college admissions. For example, neither high school offered APs in the sciences - son's high school had an integrated science program & block scheduling; and both kids attended small schools which have more limited opportunities for ECs. My daughter, like mezzomom's, attends a performing arts high -- but my d. does not intend to pursue her art at the college level, so her development of her talent is not going to pave the way into college. </p>

<p>But both my kids really enjoyed their high schools, had excellent relationships with teachers, and had some very special experiences along the way. All I hear from kids who attend the local traditional public high is complaint after complaint. I know kids can do well there. For example, a kid down the block was an athletic recruit for Stanford. But many kids are frustrated and very unhappy there -when I visited on a parent orientation night I knew my son could never be happy there, because it really brought home all of my worst memories of my very worst high school experiences. Too much of a place where the hall pass and detentions reign supreme among the administrators, where mean girls and jocks dominate the social scene. </p>

<p>So I think your comments may have some validity, but I think you should also consider that choice of high school can open up many new doors and take kids in different directions. Also, many kids who would not do particularly well in a traditional high school setting may excel in a magnet more suited to their talents and learning style -- I mean the kid who ends up with a 4.0 GPA at the new high school may have barely been able to muster a 3.2 at another high school, or the new high school may have more flexible rules about taking APs and honors classes. So even without the track record, the kid who attends the specialized program may end up with a much better record of grades, coursework, and ECs to present than the kid who was in over his head at a high school with a better track record in terms of college admissions. </p>

<p>I mean, I think that we really ought to pay as much attention to "fit" at the high school level as we do at the college level. To me, the high school fit is more important, because I think kids are so much more vulnerable at that age. I have seen kids who were very promising in 8th grade end up falling off the academic track in high school for various reasons: the social environment can be a real killer, an overly competitive academic environment can be spirit-crushing, etc. </p>

<p>So the bottom line is that you can't assume that the 14 year old entering 9th grade is going to end up a contender for admissions at top colleges, in any event. And I think once get outside of the range of highly competitive admissions, the school's track record isn't so important -- after all, that's what SATs are for.</p>

<p>Realize that an essay can make or break an application. If you apply to a school you have your heart set on, don't assume that legacy or grades will pull you in. Spend time and care in presenting yourself to the admissions committee, because all that they will see (unless they are like Brown and ask for a picture :) ) are scores and your personal statements. Also, choose a school for ED/SCEA; it would reduce the stree of senior year if you are accepted, and also improve your chances of being accepted at your first choice school (by proving to Adcoms that it is your first choice).</p>