<p>D is taking official recruiting visits to 5 outstanding schools: Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia and Stanford. We are very grateful that she has such amazing choices. So far, though, she likes them all very much! Each has something special and different to offer, and there are also minor negatives to each. The hard thing too is that she is undecided about her major, so that's not very helpful as far as decision-making. She was told she'd just "know" which school is right for her. But that hasn't happened. She's interested in the social sciences, but doesn't dislike the biological and environmental sciences. I can pretty much guarantee she won't major in math or engineering, and is unlikely to go pre-med. She is considering majoring in economics, political science, or international relations, and while she doesn't think she wants to major in English, I'd say she has the strongest talent there.</p>
<p>From these schools, which would you choose for each of her possible majors? Maybe if there's a consensus of one school which is mentioned more often than the others, that would help us. </p>
<p>Also, DH is not sure how well D could do back in the northeast where we live with a degree from Stanford. He knows it's a top school with a national reputation, but worries about on-campus recruiting / job placement if D wants to return home. Can anyone whose S/D went west for college comment on this?</p>
<p>At that level of school, there is no such “consensus”. They are all wonderful schools and one isn’t “better” than the other for a major. That’s particularly true since it is more than likely that she will change her major more than once during her career.</p>
<p>As Chedva says, academically you can’t go wrong but each has a different personality and different type of campus. Go, visit, see which one feels the best.</p>
<p>I know very little about athletic recruiting, but I’m wondering, does an offer for an official recruiting visit mean an automatic offer of admission? If not, I’d suggest waiting until the offers of admissions come in, then making the decision. </p>
<p>Has your D visited all five schools? There are some real differences in campus culture among the schools on that list, driven in no small measure by location. The experience at Princeton will be vastly different from the experience at Columbia, for instance. Does your D want to tackle Columbia’s Core? </p>
<p>My son was also undecided about a major, and had the choice of several of the schools you’ve listed. Academic opportunities didn’t turn out to be the deciding factor. When you’re in this rarefied circle, the academics are good across the board. (I realize there are exceptions for kids with well-defined, narrow interests; I’m talking here about the undecided student with strengths in a number of academic areas and the desire to sample a variety of courses.) Other factors, notably campus culture, drove his decision in the end. </p>
<p>And shouldn’t a defining factor be which coach/team she prefers?</p>
<p>There will often be differences in departments and their typical approaches, but I don’t know if you’ll be able to figure them out. For example a friend of mine did Fine Arts (Art History) as an undergrad at Harvard and it was all about connoisseurship, when she got to Yale for grad school it was much more about the social context. That was 20 years ago, so no idea how the departments might or might not differ now. I agree though, for top schools you probably can’t really go wrong, especially for a kid who has no idea what they’ll major in.</p>
<p>Unless your child his strongly fixated in his field and it is a specialized one, it doesn’t matter that much if the school is that strong in the field, in my opinion. Clearly, if your child wants to go into computers, leading edge instruction, knowledge and equipment is needed, for instance, or if arts are a strong consideration, there should be good offerings in that field, but for most kids who are truly undecided, a good liberal arts core is all that is needed. </p>
<p>Kids who want to go directly to a business major do need to see if that is even offered at a given school. I’ve known many kids considering schools without that major and the they don’t even know that! Not cool, especially if it comes out in interviews or essays or applications.</p>
<p>To answer your questions, D carefully researched schools that had what she was looking for academically, athletically, geographically etc. Next she unofficially visited her top 13 selections, all of whom were also interested in her as an athletic recruit. She did the regular admissions information sessions and tours and met with the coaches at each. Also, she has been communicating by e-mail with these coaches for a while and also has spoken to them about once a week by phone since July 1.</p>
<p>From among this group she narrowed down her list to 7. But NCAA rules limit athletes to only 5 official visits. Once financial aid pre-reads were completed, she eliminated 2 schools because their offers weren’t at all competitive with the others. Finally she began her official recruiting visits to these 5 schools. By this point, D had gotten rid of any school with a major flaw and so these were all schools she knew she liked a lot and whose coaches and sports program were appealing for some reason. She was therefore counting on the official visits to clarify the decision. She figured that staying two days on campus, meeting the team, attending a class or two, and speaking again personally with the coaches would be enough for one school to rise about the others. So far that hasn’t happened. Sure she discerned certain advantages and disadvantages of each school, but these seem to balance out. It’s hard for her to prioritize these features, as they seem equally important to her. Does the residential system at Yale, which she loves, compensate for her dislike of New Haven? Does the passion and fun-loving nature of the Princeton team compensate for her dislike of the eating club system? Does the super coaching staff at Columbia compensate for her dislike of the Core? And so on.</p>
<p>All of the coaches are still contacting her, and it seems the ball is in her court. They definitely want her, so she just needs to decide who to commit to.</p>
<p>Given the satisfaction levels reported from schools such as Yale, Princeton Columbia, the disadvantages seem to be minor. If she is going to be spending a lot of time, which college athletes do, with her team and coaches, it is important that she like that situation.</p>
<p>But if she really dislikes the Core, she may want to think about dropping Columbia from contention. I believe the Core courses take up the better part of an undergrad’s first two years at Columbia. That’s a long time to be immersed in something you dislike.</p>
<p>You gotta admit, this is a nice problem to have. ;)</p>
<p>Hardly anyone affirmatively likes New Haven, especially before they start college. Yet every year Yale graduates 1,300 rabid fans. Of course the residential college system compensates for New Haven, and New Haven (while never exactly a selling point) turns out to be not so bad.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, pretty much everyone at Columbia hates the Core. Some hated it before enrolling, but the others catch up fast. That’s an essential bonding experience there – everyone hates the Core together. Fun! If hating the Core was a good enough reason not to go to Columbia, Columbia would be deserted.</p>
<p>And who doesn’t hate the Princeton eating club system? Princeton students and alumni, that’s who. It sounds disgusting to me, but everyone I know who went there – including some hard-core lefties who barely ever set foot inside one – thinks it is fine. Great for most, harmless for the rest.</p>
<p>By the way, (a) a Stanford degree will be just fine if she wants to come back East, provided she’s willing to work in a place with a population of more than 1,000, and (b) there’s a really good chance she won’t want to come back East. Hardly anyone does. It’s not because they couldn’t get a job. California has been experiencing net immigration since the Ice Age ended.</p>
<p>What about the competitiveness of the sports team itself? Generally athletes prefer to be on a winning team, or one with a fighting chance. When thinking about athletics, Stanford is a Div I school in the PAC 10 - a pretty different scene than the one for the Ivies. The whole attitude towards athletics at Stanford is going to be different. Which maybe she’s not interested in? Prefers something more low key?</p>
<p>JHS: exactly! I’m sure she could be reasonably happy at any of these schools, but why not try to make the best decision? The disappointing thing to her was that the “issues” of each school that were important enough to matter were ones she already knew about before visiting. Also, she was really hoping to get a good sense of the social scene on each team and at each school. She did to a small extent, but felt that her experience could have varied greatly had her hostess been a different girl. What if the hostess had taken her to a concert instead of a crazy party? Wouldn’t she have had a different feel for the place? She’s not sure how much she can extrapolate from the Saturday night activity at each school.</p>
<p>DeirdreTours–more important to have your 6 year old start working on practice SAT tests, I think! While D is talented in her sport (running), she wouldn’t have these choices without good scores and grades.</p>
<p>Spiritmanager: I think the competitiveness of the team may very well help decide this. But everyone warns us to have her choose the school as if she weren’t going to do sports. I understand the rationale for that–she could get seriously injured or decide not to run anymore–but as cpt points out, the team dynamic will be an important part of her experience.</p>
<p>The Stanford coach claims the time commitment would be the same there as at an Ivy. Doesn’t seem like it could be true, esp. with the travel required in the PAC10, but that’s what he claims.</p>
<p>If she decides on Stanford she won’t have any trouble recruiting for jobs in the northeast. Lots of recruiters from all over the US (all over the world, actually) come to Stanford, and there are plenty of Stanford alums in Boston, NYC, DC, etc.</p>
<p>My DH had the same worries about our D when she decided to go East - how will she get a job in CA after graduation? It was a ridiculous worry given the school she was going to. Really he was just having a hard time seeing his little girl going so far away.</p>
<p>Your D might want to speak/email/facebook with some of her potential teammates at the various schools before making a final decision, especially women who run the same events as she does. My D sent emails to track coaches at the schools she was interested in, some of which appear on your D’s list. The return email from the Stanford coach was memorable. He mentioned that the Pac 10 conference is the most competitive in college track (it includes U Oregon and UCLA among others) and concluded by saying that “if you are willing to make the sacrifices required of a Pac 10 athlete I would be happy to talk to you further.” Granted that she wasn’t Div I caliber (she would have been a walk-on at Stanford or Princeton), but the “sacrifices” line really stuck with me. That’s why I think it would be a good idea for your D to find out from women who are already running her event(s) what kind of time commitment they are actually making, not just on the track but in the gym, traveling, etc., and how it is affecting their academic experience.</p>
<p>The Stanford coach is not being entirely truthful. There is a BIG difference between the caliber and makeup of the teams in the Pac 10 athletic league and the Ivy league. Stanford offers athletic scholarships to lots of athletes who are for the most part, good students, but are at Stanford first and foremost because they ARE athletes first. The Ivy league offers no athletic scholarships. that is itself should be a indicator of the relative importance of sports vrs academics at the colleges under consideration. If your D wants to have ANY time to devote to her studies/and her life outside of her sport I strongly suggest she pick another college than Stanford.</p>
<p>I think she needs to decide if the athletics or the academics are more important to her. She was wonderful choices and will not really be compromising, no matter her choice. It’s just subtle degrees at this point. But if she would like athletics to take precedence, no question - go to Stanford - where she’ll still have a fabulous academic experience even if injured. On the other hand, if she doesn’t want sports to always come first, she might want to look elsewhere. Even in Div III which my son played, there are sacrifices of academics one makes for the sake of the sport (usually for scheduling reasons.) In Div I it’s magnified enormously.</p>
<p>Sorry, I didn’t see the last two posts when I wrote. My anecdotal understanding from kids in my area is that at the Ivy Leagues, recruited athletes are students first. At Stanford, recruited athletes are athletes first.</p>