<p>Thing is with open response, questions will be different. When testmakers make the test, there won’t be very specific types of questions like we see today. There will be a required level of intuition by both student and teacher.</p>
<p>^I don’t see anyway to ensure that. And with open response questions now, they can still be taught to the test in certain ways. There are still ways to dumb it down. I’m not trying to say it’s a bad idea or anything, but that it’s not perfect–and there is no <em>perfect</em> solution, I think. There are pros and cons to many of the solutions, and I do happen to like the intentions of yours and perhaps its execution too, but just that I think some problems will come along with it, unfortunately.</p>
<p>I do think it’s a start. And I agree with lots of what you said.</p>
<p>They can be taught in some ways and dumbed down, but with higher standards set for students, there are higher test standards for test makers.</p>
<p>^I want standards to be higher. But I’m also afraid that will just breed harsher punishments and thus scare teachers into teaching to the test in any way possible. But then again, I suppose oversight is necessary. So, it’s a delicate balance. But I think we should shoot higher–for all students. </p>
<p>One way to do this, instead of setting exact benchmarks, is to set improvement benchmarks. So as the program of these national standards gets eased in, there can be a year without punishment/rewards/retraining to see an initial test or whatever (or there can be that). So then, if school A is at 50% proficiency and school B at 70% proficiency, the goal can be to increase school A from 50^ to 60% and school B from 70% to 75% (I am making up numbers obviously). So that way school A, which is worse for whatever MANY reasons than school B, is not asked to make this huge jump so quickly.</p>
<p>With merit pay, teachers could be convinced. It’s hard to teach to a test in which you don’t see the questions, only a few sample. They change constantly.</p>
<p>That benchmark idea works well.</p>
<p>^ Merit pay is a VERY bad idea.</p>
<p>NO TEACHER, I repeat, ** NO TEACHER ** would EVER want to work in districts that need good teachers. For example, NO teacher would EVER want to work in Detroit Public Schools. </p>
<p>All merit pay does is draw talent away from the schools that need it most.</p>
<p>^ I agreen with that. Also, merit pay requires a means of measuring merit. A lot of things can’t be measured, and so those things don’t get taught, because they aren’t on the test.</p>
<p>“See, here’s how it works: I pretend to teach, you pretend to learn. You pass tests, the school keeps it’s funding, and you advance to the next level where the process is repeated until you enter the workforce where hopefully… NOBODY GIVES YOU ANY GUFF!”</p>
<p>-Bernie, The Incredibles</p>
<p>We don’t want our schools to be like that.</p>
<p>^Is that not the cartoon the incredibles…? haha.</p>
<p>I think teachers should be paid more to teach in high-need areas. To solve the problem romani brought up.</p>
<p>^Wouldn’t that solely reverse the issue?</p>
<p>I currently am a teacher’s aid in Lansing School District (one of the poorest districts in the entire country). I teach in an ESL 1st grade room. And by “I teach” I literally mean, “I teach”. The teacher is a complete idiot who can’t string together a sentence, and she is supposed to be teaching these children English. I have to correct her simple, 1st grade, sentences on a daily basis during the year (both written and spoken) because she is terrible. But, she is working there because she isn’t highly qualified and was willing to work for less (ie no one else would hire her). This is sad, sad, sad and the reason that China and India for example are kicking our butts in producing high quality graduates.</p>
<p>^^No, because the areas that are “high-need” are disadvantaged already…even at equal pay, I think most people would choose to teach in suburbs. </p>
<p>^I wouldn’t say it’s the sole reason, but probably one of them.</p>
<p>@Romani, how would you want to perhaps ensure that teachers are qualified enough? How would you get teachers to teach in areas that typically discourage potential teachers (for whatever reasons)? I’m curious if you have ideas!</p>
<p>I suppose so, but I would assume that the following would occur:</p>
<p>Higher pay-> greater amount of teacher interest/possible increase in the quality of the education-> more attraction to those seeking a sufficient education-> increase in housing costs to reflect school quality-> development of a more wealthy community-> lack of ability for some to afford housing costs</p>
<p>I don’t see that chain of events happening at all. Sorry. In addition, there will always be great teachers (well, for the most part) where there are right now, where high tax bases can pay for them. I use the word “lure” because teachers aren’t attracted to teaching in high-need areas most of the time. So I really do NOT see that happening.</p>
<p>That’s just my perception. From what I’ve been able to acknowledge though, the more appealing schools are situated in wealthier areas. I do believe that the quality of the education is reflected in housing costs.</p>
<p>I pretty much second wart’s chain of events. </p>
<p>Dramatically increase teacher salaries, draw more talent to the pool, therefore underqualified teachers are quickly booted out. It is deplorable that one of the most influential professions to our future is paid nearly poverty-level income.</p>
<p>^Right. So let’s say school X in suburbs pays 60 grand for starting teachers and school Y in neighboring city pays 40 grand. If the city, which is a much worse school–both test-wise, poverty-wise, violence-wise, etc.–raises salary to 70 grand, you think that teachers will flock there, and the community will suddenly get richer? </p>
<p>Sorry, but no. There are such more entrenched problems that it would probably not occur, and if it did, it would take decades. I mean, I think it could eventually, but there are deeper problems I think…</p>
<p>^^What professor is that?</p>
<p>And while I want Warts chain of events to happen, I don’t think it’s quite that simple, but I retract my previous negativity. I do think there are, however, some deeper problems in many areas–though education is always related!–but with time, it can happen. Hopefully. I think other policies need to change too…</p>
<p>Yes, I totally agree with trying to attract the best teachers and paying them more and just making it an attractive job. Now how can we get this to happen…?</p>
<p>^^ Did I say that? No. I said that it would increase competition though. I never said it would happen instantly. </p>
<p>However, I think 60k, 70k are much too low. They should be in the 100k+ range. The salaries need to be on par with other jobs that attract top talent. I am in favor of slashing many, MANY budgets in order to make this happen. I am also highly in favor of dramatically taxing companies that outsource and taxing various other harmful practices as well.</p>
<p>^I never said you said that…I was kind of thinking (posting) out loud…sorry!</p>
<p>Oh, and my figures were literally pulled out of the air–I’m not too sure what average salaries are right now!!!</p>
<p>What budgets would you slash? </p>
<p>Would you also tax companies that harm the environment? (I am kind of assuming you will say yes, based on your other beliefs, but that’s just an assumption.)</p>
<p>To me, there are definitely areas I would want to lessen the budgets or change it (through policy changes) and would want to give more to education. But I know many people feel like we are also wasting money there. I suppose also I would have to look how exactly WHERE the money goes–it is honestly impossible for me to find figures on this!</p>
<p>^ Military and defense for one. I think it is ridiculous that we have bases in countries years after wars there have ended. I also think we should worry more about ourselves than other countries. One of the main reasons countries hate us is because we continually stick our noses where they don’t belong.
DEA spending.
Many others. I’m sure you can figure out from my posts which ones :p. </p>
<p>And yes, absolutely.</p>