I'm beginning to think that our HS stresses AP classes WAY too much

Parent Cafe
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<p>My kids' high school stresses AP classes a lot; they love to be on the Newsweek Top 100 list. My oldest child is a junior and by the end of next year, he will have taken 11 AP classes. The next child is a freshman in AP Human Geography.</p>

<p>After the end of this week, there will be six full weeks of school left. My daughter's class finished the AP Human Geo book last week. Same for most of my son's classes. It would make a lot more sense to me to teach a class with the rigor of an AP class, but to stretch the instruction over the entire school year, instead of fnishing 7-8 weeks early to prep for the exam. </p>

<p>Texas recently passed a law that requires school to start two weeks later than it used to, but AP exams didn't move back of course, so that made for 2 weeks less of instruction.</p>

<p>In AP Bio, there are no dissections, because there aren't any dissections on the AP exam.</p>

<p>Lest you say, "Just don't sign your kid up for AP classes", in some areas there are no options. The only full year Psych course is AP Psych. After Computer Science I, there is only AP Comp Sci to take. The only Art History and Evironmental Science courses offered are the AP courses.</p>

<p>I would prefer that my kids get more, longer instruction and enrichment rather than to race through the material in a full year test prep course.</p>

<p>What do you think?</p>

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<p>When I took AP classes in high school, we didn't stop 7-8 weeks early to prep for the test. We integrated test prep in throughout the year (for instance, having sections of our tests that mimicked parts of the AP tests), and had optional evening review sessions when it got close to test time, plus maybe one or two class periods for review. This sounds like an implementation issue.</p>

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<p>But even if you teach new things up until the day of the test, you have to finish the material by then...which leaves 3-4 weeks of school to "fill" after the exam is over. I'm sure that most of the teachers will make good use of the time, but it would make much more sense to be able to teach the course over 9 months rather than 8.</p>

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<p>We're in the same boat. AP is the only option for the vast majority of classes, though there are two levels of AP, which doesn't make sense to me.</p>

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<p>
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I would prefer that my kids get more, longer instruction and enrichment rather than to race through the material in a full year test prep course.

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</p>

<p>We're disillusioned with AP, too, because the pedagogy stinks. S2 (sophomore) takes AP English, Bio, Calc AB, and Euro. The AP's are a time consuming grind but not intellectually stimulating. Boring, even. Early college courses are looking like a better alternative.</p>

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<p>I don't think the problem is that the courses are AP. My son took a lot of AP courses; all of them covered new material up until the test. Afterwards (approx. 3 weeks), they wrote papers in most of the courses. In Calc BC, they learned to use some math software that is often used university Calc III courses and covered some material in more depth. My daughter is currently in AP World History, and she is still learning new material as of today, and according to the syllabus, for the next month,</p>

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<p>For those of you besides midmo with kids who will have several weeks of instruction after AP week--what will be happening in your kids' classes?</p>

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<p>Things are much worse in NY - school starts after labor day and goes on till the end of June. We have much less time to cover the material than most parts of the country. </p>

<p>What goes on after APs varies. In AP Physics C they watched Star Wars movies and played ping pong. In AP US History and AP World they do review for the NYS Regents exams which are scheduled for the last two weeks of June. In AP Bio they did oral presentations on different areas of biology. In AP Latin they learned a little Greek. In AP Comp Sci they had planned to do projects, but they took the opportunity to get started on planned construction in the computer lab instead. My son AP World class got behind schedule this year. They are probably going to be learning new material until the day before the exam.</p>

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<p>Last year after my daughter's AP World History class finished the AP World History test, they continued to learn more World History. It turned out that they hadn't learned all there is to know about the history of the world by mid-May. :-)</p>

<p>And this was a GREAT class.</p>

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<p>I think it very much depends on the competency of the teacher. When my daughter took the US history AP test a couple of years back they had not even reached the 20th century in class (& there was simply no time to self study it). I think she said 3 out of the 5 questions were on 20th century (may be wrong - it was a while back). Not many in her class did well on the test (including her). She is a freshman this year and the way her schedule is looking she will be taking the US history required for gen ed her junior or senior year! Would have been nice to have that AP credit.</p>

<p>I guess it happens everywhere - back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth it was time to sign up for math O levels (UK system) and we had nowhere nearly covered the 2 year syllabus so no one was going to be allowed to sign up - I needed the Math O level so was able to persuade the school to let me sign up. Got a 'good enough' score but not would I would have liked (I was good at math). Still bugs me all these years later when it is no longer relavent.</p>

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<p>After the tests in May, my son's CalcBC and Physics classes last year finally got to explore the answers to questions that the teacher asked them to hold until after the curriculum was finished. Since the AP program has such a strict syllabus, they used the last four-five weeks of school going off on all those tangents that weren't allowed earlier.</p>

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<p>After AP tests at our charter HS, Intersession starts. (I think it's the next week.) So after testing and finals, then there's a month of fine arts or whatever other elective the students have.</p>

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<p>I agree with swimcatsmom: It depends a good deal on the teacher. It also depends on the school, in a number of different ways.</p>

<p>So far we've had two very different experiences, one with D at our local public (which is in many ways a terrific school, especially when you factor in the extreme diversity of our district), and one still in progress at the private school S1 attends. </p>

<p>At the public school, it's just as missypie said, they're in love with the Newsweek and other rankings; they want to show big, big numbers in the AP classes. APs are open to all, and one result is that sometimes even good teachers simply can't keep on pace with the material, because some students absolutely can't follow. So there are times when it's just ludicrous to call these college-level classes. Even if that's not the case there's little time for the sorts of interesting discussions the material might spark - it's run, run, run for the finish line. And as mathmom said, in NY time is particularly tight. As for after-the-exam: The school's policy allows seniors who've applied for internships to stop attending class after the AP exam (so that they can do their internships). What the juniors or non-interning seniors do varies depending on the class, but the variations are much like those other posters have described.</p>

<p>At the private school, it's hard to get into an AP. They don't cut things off strictly by GPA, but it's factored in, along with class participation, etc. So far what we're hearing from S1 is that these are great classes, and that while the material's being covered, much more is going on, too. Because it's a private school, the year ends abt three weeks earlier than the public school, so there's less after-AP-exam time, but for the most part they will be covering interesting tangents or doing not-for-grade projects.</p>

<p>Honestly I think the AP system is kind of a trap, especially at the public schools. And it's a trap that's just getting tighter. Kids (and parents) feel they MUST take as many as possible, even though they're often not the best/most challenging option. (And whether or not good AP scores convey any real advantage to kids once they hit college is a big variable.) Ideally there would be many more options available for all kids at all high schools; ideally each school's GCs would do a really great job of explaining to the colleges which courses represent a significant challenge.</p>

<p>Ideally I'd be getting some dinner together right about now. Oops.</p>

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<p>The more I read (here and elsewhere) the more I am just against them in most schools. I think they are worthwhile in poor performing schools as a way to introduce higher level classes that are nationally normed, but for many schools they are just stifling the curriculum.</p>

<p>And who thinks these classes are really college level, considering that the freshman in HS are taking them?</p>

<p>For ambitious kids, they know they have to take every AP class offered because they need to get that check box *most demanding courses on their HS profile. It's a straightjacket for the kids and the schools.</p>

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<p>Speaking as a college senior, from reading these boards, looking at my brother, the underclassmen at Colgate, and listening to my professors, AP really screws a lot of people.</p>

<p>My art professor was complaining how students these days need more "step-by-step" instruction in her studio classes rather than try things on their own. Students won't expand their minds and take risks with new ideas that come up. She said that when they do portfolio review (usually AP level), they all look alike- no sense of personal style. Students are just TOO test/numbers driven to step back and explore their creativity.</p>

<p>My professors spent the first THREE years of college knocking my head that ideas do MATTER, not the grades. I had one professor who literally took that seriously- gave students bad grades if they tried to write papers what they thought he wanted from them. I took the risk and wound up with a A in that course.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, with the AP and increased pressure from teachers to teach to the test, students' lives are ruined before they start college. When I told my history professor why I don't want to be a high school teacher, she said, that's how a lot of people feel. There's just no room for tangents and for teachers to try out new topics. I don't know, I'm just getting a lot of bad feeling from the professors towards the freshmen and sophomores.</p>

<p>Anyway, HSs might think they're preparing their students for college by pushing them to take as many APs as possible. But in fact, AP doesn't do much, and it might even hurt the students' abilities to do REALLY well in college. Even I had to throw out everything I learned in AP English in terms of analyzing material and writing style in order to write my senior thesis in history!</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I'm going to try to start a dialogue in my district to see if I can start opening some minds about AP exams. I've still got kids in the district for another six years....we'll see if I can bring about even a bit of change by the time my youngest graduates.</p>

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<p>In my S's AP Stat course, they spent the last three weeks or so developing a statistical sampling test of bottled waters (and school tap water) that they conducted during lunch hours and then made presentations.</p>

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<p>personally, I think for the kids who want to go to the mega colleges, service academies, ivy, etc... that AP and IB should be stressed highly. If all you want is a traditional college or your state "U", you don't even need to take AP/IB. It all depends on your plans for college. If a kid is serious about yale, harvard, princeton, air force academy, Cornell, Stanford, etc... then the extra seriousness behind AP and IB shouldn't be a problem. If they can't handle the stress of AP/IB, then they are probably going to have problems with the mega schools.</p>

<p>I'd like to see the schools be more honest with the students. Don't try and let them believe that AP/IB classes are for everyone. They aren't; nor should they be. When you allow kids into these classes that can't handle the curriculum, you do them a disservice as well as the rest of the class.</p>

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<p>my experience is that AP courses raise the bar for the usual teacher. the inspired teachers are still inspired; and the uninspired, let's not work today teachers are held accountable. also, the "I am using this class to teach you my beliefs and little material" teachers, are stymied.</p>