I'm concerned...

<p>I've been playing the cello since fourth grade (when you're allowed to start in the public school system where I live) and had a private teacher since sixth grade. (I'm about to enter my junior year of high school.) My teacher, although I loved her to death, wasn't incredibly strict or demanding about what I needed to do, so I never particularly practiced much. In March I realized how important the cello had become, and I wanted to practice more and more but never really had an opportunity because I was also a competitive synchronized swimmer who practiced about 12 hours a week (not including transportation, etc.)</p>

<p>I've quit synchro in order to pursue music, and switched teachers two months ago. I'm now practicing a whole lot more and feel as though I'm improving rapidly. However, I've never been in a legitimate youth orchestra and did not attend a music camp this summer.</p>

<p>My entire spiel boils down to this: is it practical to believe I can get into a major conservatory?</p>

<p>“What I have accomplished in the past” – in terms of youth orchestras, All-State, etc. – doesn’t necessarily mean all that much to conservatories. They can’t hurt, but don’t necessarily help. What matters most is the audition, and as a junior, you have time to concentrate on honing your skills.</p>

<p>Why does it have to be a major conservatory? Since you’re a late bloomer, perhaps you would do better in a slightly less competitive environment.</p>

<p>I know a few late-bloomer cellists who took a gap year to focus and prepare. All gained admission to their top choice conservatories.</p>

<p>Thanks so much!</p>

<p>Without knowing how much background knowledge you possess regarding music admissions, I’d suggest you start here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There are some links in post 4 here that may be useful
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/674345-cello-player-what-do.html?highlight=cello[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/674345-cello-player-what-do.html?highlight=cello&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The right teacher can go a long way in positioning you to be competitive for audition based admissions. If you have engaged an instructor familiar and adept at producing students that are competitive in conservatory level admissions, then your dedication becomes a large part of the equation. The key to knowing how you stack up is professional assessment.</p>

<p>Do not underestimate the value of a good quality youth symphony, because the experience of playing with like minded serious musicians of equal and greater talent is an important aspect of skill development. Summer programs expose you to a broader base of peer talent, as well as different teachers and methods. The intensity of being surrounded 24/7 by “music kids” often is key in determining if a student wants or is willing or able to embrace the same in an undergrad pursuit. Again, not a necessity, but typically part of the common experience of students headed down this road.</p>

<p>My new teacher also teaches at a local college - I’m not sure how much I am allowed to say regarding that considering it would be easy to tell who he is? </p>

<p>I am auditioning for our regional orchestra, and, if that goes well, All-State. I was scanning the topics before I posted this, and read the threads you recommended. </p>

<p>Thank you so much for your advice.</p>

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</p>

<p>You’re safest by not mentioning the specific name within a public forum.</p>

<p>Cellolove, I was also a late bloomer (I’m a violinist). I started in third grade and got private lessons late in fourth. I did join a youth symphony in middle school, and gradually became more and more serious, eventually attending a fairly prestigious pre-college program and high-level youth orchestra. If all you need is more time to mature musically/get your technique up to speed, I would highly suggest you consider taking a gap year, as glassharmonica mentioned. I did, and it was absolutely the right move. I’m both excited and prepared to go to conservatory in a couple weeks (the summer has flown by!), and I had much better options when choosing a school this past year. If you have any questions, please PM me. Good luck!</p>

<p>One cellist’s route:</p>

<p>4th grade - started, worked a little with dad who played a little in high school
5th grade - same
6th grade - private teacher weekly, joined local youth orchestra (weakest string player)
7th grade - same teacher, youth orch., two week summer camp (Strings Intl. M.F)
8th grade - same teacher, youth orch., three week summer camp (Same)
9th grade - same teacher, youth orch., all-state, some chamber, six week camp (Interlochen)
10th grade - pre-college program, youth orch. (2), all-state, chamber, six week camp (Same)
11th grade - pre-college program, left mid-year for new teacher, youth orch. (2), all-state, chamber, six week camp (Same), two week int’l festival
12th grade - same</p>

<p>Successfully auditioned and is ecstatic with the opportunity to study with one of the best teachers in the world. Had multiple options.</p>

<p>Now that might look like a lot but the truth is, while there was improvement every year, the significant improvement took place in 11th grade and in the first semester of 12th grade. Didn’t win any competitions until 12th grade. </p>

<p>As far as your question is concerned, what does your teacher think? Do you have plans to get a new teacher? Lots of variables and questions here. Happy to help if I can.</p>

<p>Thanks so much! I talked to my teacher about it, and he basically said what you did – that this year will define me as a player. I’ve amped up the practicing quite a bit. He told me that he can’t tell me anything incredibly specific as I haven’t really shown how far I can go yet. He did tell me that I will probably never be a professional orchestra player – something I was expecting and am okay with…</p>

<p>Anyway, I figure that if I’m diligent with practicing I could do quite a lot. Last year when I auditioned for the Senior Regional orchestra I didn’t make it, but I was not far off and with my new teacher I think I can make it. </p>

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>

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</p>

<p>Wow. You’re way too young for anyone to say that to you. And you haven’t had the benefit of high level training to foreclose any possible career as a musician.</p>

<p>The road to professional musicianship is varied. And while it’s great to be considered a prodigy or a potential professional at a young age, it’s not a requirement. Case in point: Carter Brey, principal cellist, New York Philharmonic.</p>

<p>Brey began playing cello at 12 and didn’t start thinking about a professional career until age 16. He went to Peabody, which, while a great school, is not considered the top conservatory in the country and is certainly accessible for a serious cellist who has not yet reached his full potential by age 17. After that, he taught at a university, then attended Yale. He won international recognition at age 27, enjoyed a nice career as a solist and chamber musician, then, at age 42 he joined the NY Phil.</p>

<p>The takeaway here is that you shouldn’t let anyone tell you what won’t be available to you at this point of your life. Will it be harder for you? Sure. You have some catching up to do. But a statement like that by a teacher who knows how little training you’ve had is shameful and the notion that you can’t learn what you need to learn over the next 10 years (1 in high school, 4 in college, and 5 post graduate), ludicrous.</p>

<p>For your sake, whatever your goal is, set the bar high, make a plan, and work your butt off.</p>

<p>I second what speihei said, that was kind of a ridiculous thing to say, and also frankly is something there is no way he could guarantee. I realize that according to conventional wisdom you can be considered “starting late”, and that you may have a lot of work to do to catch up so to speak, but that is not a guarantee of anything. Based on personal experience (and Carter Brey is a good example, there are others as well) doors don’t close that tight even in the crazy world of music as it exists today.</p>

<p>If he had said you wouldn’t be a first class soloist a la Yo Yo Ma, I could respect that, because besides the ridiculously high standard to be a soloist, there simply aren’t a lot of them, you are talking maybe at best 10-20 people in the world in terms of the ‘superstar’ soloist…just based in statistics, and the advanced playing level, that one would be pretty easy to say.</p>

<p>And though you are approaching late in high school, there is still a long path ahead. About the only way he could be right IMO is if you were someone totally untalented, who was hacking around, etc, and hadn’t really done anything per se (which you don’t sound like; that description, on the other hand, described my skills or lack thereof in high school, I wouldn’t cut it in the really terrible orchestra at my best:).Getting into an orchestra is a weird path in many ways, that requires, besides a lot of luck and being in the right place at the right time and the playing ability, other less talked about skills. Personality comes into it, musical interpretation and feeling, the ability to read others in a group and blend in, the ability to play in a group and bring something unique to it (technical mastery alone is meaningless, at least in a high level orchestra like the NY Phil or the Philadelphia). Being in an orchestra like that is a committment that is unlike simply playing. </p>

<p>Want to know a dirty little secret? Many of the hotshots you see, the ones winning competitions, have the teacher’s drooling and the like, playing the elgar at 12 and so forth, won’t make it into an orchestra and for many reasons. The problem is those kids focused on the solo repertoire, most of their training was about winning competitions, getting into pre college programs and then into a top level conservatory (all of which, I might add, can be done while having little or no orchestra or ensemble skills; I have seen those students do chamber and such, godawful comes to mind) (and here I am talking for the most part violin and cello, for instruments primarily ensemble based, like horn, woodwinds and so forth, it is different, but you are on the cello) and they therefore have a hard time, if ever, developing good ensemble skills (not to mention more then a few of them have egos that hurt them big time when they get out there). To give you an idea, the Curtis Symphony, composed of reputedly some of the best student musicians around, creme de la creme, played Carnegie Hall and the Times reviewer was not kind, he said they sounded like a bunch of soloists trying to outdo each other, and I have heard similar comments.</p>

<p>Maybe in some ways, because you know you have to ‘try harder’, kinda like the old Avis ads “Were #2 so we try harder”, it will give you an advantage over more advanced players who think they are going to have the world throwing themselves at them. If your goal is to get into an orchestra, then focus on that. Use every opportunity to do chamber and orchestra, if there is a youth orchestra as well as the conservatory one, do it, get that experience, pick the brains of the conductor and coaches, use it.</p>

<p>And also keep in mind that these days many orchestra positions are being filled by people with masters degree level degrees, who have more then college level study, which means you have extra time to catch up and also can ‘move up’ if you get into an undergrad program that is lower then you would wish, by going to a higher level grad program. </p>

<p>I am not telling you it is going to be easy, it isn’t, it is going to be a haul (but it is a haul for kids who do get serious earlier, that I know from personal experience), it just means you might have to put extra effort in to catch up, and obviously the whole thing for anyone is such a crap shoot about who gets in or not, all you can do is work towards it, have a thick skin and persevere.</p>

<p>My only other advice would be thinking about perhaps finding another teacher. I don’t know how good a teacher he is, obviously, but even if he is good, I am concerned that he would tell a student something like that, and more importantly, that subconsciously would label you as someone ‘not worth the effort’, to try and bring along,which is kind of self defeating. If he had said to you “You know, you face a tough path, and it will be a real battle to get yourself to a level where you have a reasonable chance of an orchestra career, do you think you can do that?” I would be more amenable to him as your teacher (and obviously, I don’t know the whole picture, your own instincts need to be the guide).</p>

<p>Again, I know only too well how hard a path music is, how relatively few orchestra jobs there are, how much crazy competition there is, how high the levels are, but I also know working musicians, including people in some high level orchestras, so I also know that the perception of what makes someone get an orchestra position is not always the truth, it is a mix of factors that along with refined technique that wins out…</p>

<p>I wish you luck, the one thing I know if you are serious about music, is you can’t let anyone get under your skin, there are a lot of people, some well meaning, some less so, who can shatter dreams in an instant (and often for no reason), you need to focus and go, because the one thing I probably can guarantee,you let them break your focus on the prize and you won’t get there:)</p>

<p>Wow! Thank you so much speihei and musicprnt. I understand what you are saying about my teacher, but I believe he was just trying to be realistic…he does have faith in me as a student, so that comment does not really do him justice, haha.</p>

<p>Musicprnt, that was super-inspiring. Thank you!</p>

<p>Great post, Musicprnt!</p>