<p>@london – I loved your levelheaded post. Would you consider copying onto the thread about “FIT”?</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1406185-some-notes-prestige-fit.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1406185-some-notes-prestige-fit.html</a></p>
<p>I think it would be helpful for those still making last minute pushes, or considering schools with rolling apps…</p>
<p>HailuMu: terrific response! Good for your daughter for digging deep to find a place she can call home easily. Good luck to her on M10!</p>
<p>A quick note for HailuMu: Exactly.</p>
<p>For example, my younger daughter will probably not have the same test scores as my older daughter. And while she has great grades through middle school so far, she is not be as intrepid as her older sister when it comes to academic self-advocacy/self-discipline.</p>
<p>Will we be suggesting she apply to Choate or SPS (as we did for her older sister)? No. Not only do I think she stands a lower chance of admission (though apparently for Choate, so did big sis!), but I don’t know if she’d thrive at either of these great but oh so selective schools.</p>
<p>I hope come M10 that you are able to share great news from this triple secret hidden gem…and perhaps even share what school it is!</p>
<p>@girlgeekmom: sure! Thanks!</p>
<p>But there are two contradictory messages put forth on CC. What’s a kid or parent, who thinks they are pretty darn awesome in many ways not measured by the tests, to believe? </p>
<p>The first message is the thrust of this thread: if you have an SSAT/ISEE score significantly below average, your chances of acceptance are well-below average. (Shall we say, a snowball’s chance in HADES?)</p>
<p>The other opposite message (frequently observed on the chances threads, but also other places): SSAT is just a small not-very-important piece of your app. So many other things are going to weigh so much more! Your grades, your teacher recs… Go for it!</p>
<p>If one took into account both messages, then one would take the prudent approach followed by many of the posters here: apply to a range of both reaches, likelies, and safeties. Go for fit, not prestige.</p>
<p>But now I will play devil’s advocate for message #2, as well as try to rationalize the “Why do they do this?” question asked by SevenDad: Many boardiing school hopefuls have a very healthy ego, and for good reason. They are one of the top students in their school. They have won competitions, they have fascinating ECs. They get alot of praise from teachers, parents, friends. Surely the admissions commitee WILL see past their too-low SSAT score to the awesome child they truly are? THey look at those statistics from Boarding School Review…Gosh. If SchoolX has such low standards, it obviously isn’t as good, right? If it lets in a full XX% of applicants <gasp> and the average SSAT is only XX% <double-gasp> then it just can’t be what the otherwise high-achieving kid and their family want out of a school. After all, they are trying to leave a less-than-acceptable school experience. Why would they go to the expense of BS, just to have more of the same? Thus, message #2 wins out, and much disappointment ensues…</double-gasp></gasp></p>
<p>Anyway…just my musings into some why/how this occurs. I’m sure there are many other scenarios at play as well.</p>
<p>Musing on my above musing:</p>
<p>It seems BS applicants frequently judge boarding schools solely on their stats, but then expect the boarding school will not do the same to them.</p>
<p>I sense a double standard here!</p>
<p>RuralMama, that is an excellent point!</p>
<p>@RuralMama: I agree that, viewed collectively, the forum speaks out of two sides of our mouths…and probably more than just two. Heck, I’m sure that over the years I’ve given heaps of contradictory advice.</p>
<p>However, I’m also sure that I’ve repeatedly written that it’s never been my intent to talk someone out of applying to any school. It’s just that I see a few too many “I got a 67% SSAT, what do you think my chances are for Milton, Deerfield, Choate, Exeter, and Andover?” type posts and scratch my head. Because frankly, given the caliber of the applicant pool, you really don’t want any low points to your application profile, especially if you are serious about getting into one of the uber-selective schools.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that I’m no AO, nor do I play one on TV. I’m just a dad who helped one of his kids navigate this process a few years ago. She was and is a 99th-ile kid with commensurate grades and solid ECs — and she DID NOT get in everywhere she applied.</p>
<p>Well put!</p>
<p>“It seems BS applicants frequently judge boarding schools solely on their stats, but then expect the boarding school will not do the same to them.”</p>
<p>My opinion, for what its is worth. If you have a student from a public school who is bright but forced to run the gauntlet of state sponsored tests - then they “may” score low on SSAT because the format is different - and apparently this year got much harder. You put that same kid next to someone from a strong school that isn’t beholden to the state exam, or from a public suburban school with funds to run those kids through Iowa Basics and they look unqualified.</p>
<p>What burns me is all this emphasis on a single test score range. Yes - schools screen through the scores but they often (depending the student, geographical region, circumstances) look at the portfolio before discarding it. Not every desirable student scores well.</p>
<p>And this odd obsession to claim that students who score low will be holding their head above water just isn’t true for the most part. We can all cite the stats from the handful of students who flunked out because they couldn’t keep up. But I can think of similar cases (and in greater volumes) of high testing students who met the same fate because everyone assumed their “scores” qualified them. </p>
<p>Not a year goes by when someone doesn’t grab me and say “so and so’s kid got a perfect score on the ACT and is now qualified for MIT.” No - it doesn’t work that way and they’re shocked when those kids get turned down. Just as BS families seem fixated on this one quantitative standard.</p>
<p>So although great discussion fodder for the boards - remember that a lot of people lurk here for information but don’t post here. So they may take what gets said as gospel when really, it’s speculating on a limited set of public stats absent of the variables behind them.</p>
<p>The reality is that a low score, absent of any other indicators that the student is academically unprepared, will not seal an applicant’s fate. Just as a high score will not guarantee success.</p>
<p>Sure - there are students that post here with “my SSAT score is a 45 and my grades are so-so with mostly B’s and a few C’s, and I’m kind of lazy but I want to go to a better school so I can get into an IVY.” Those students have pretty close to zilch options in today’s competitive pool even at lower tier schools and even if they come equipped with a yacht full of money.</p>
<p>But the “outside looking in” analysis isn’t healthy or helpful. Schools post the stats that help them attract top students and stat hungry parents. It does not necessarily tell you what the “real” range is. </p>
<p>But again - and I can’t shout this enough having worked with literally hundreds of applicants - the SSAT is an artificial test in a bubble and not every bright student is going to come out with high scores on that test. If everything else about them indicates they are a good fit - taking them on at Admissions isn’t about risk, it’s about historical performance data that says that particular student is a good fit.</p>
<p>“The reality is that a low score, absent of any other indicators that the student is academically unprepared, will not seal an applicant’s fate. Just as a high score will not guarantee success.”</p>
<p>Exie, I never said that a low score is a definite dealbreaker. </p>
<p>However I do feel that far too many kids who post on CC seem to put all their eggs in the HADES basket, including a number of students (going by the current trend of “Bombed the SSAT” posts) who are definitely presenting an app profile with a relative weak spot.</p>
<p>@SevenDad I wasn’t really responding to your posts. We’re kindred spirits. But there has been a rash of other people posting the no chance in Hades stuff lately.</p>
<p>But - to your credit - you are correct. There are certain schools, Exeter is notorious for this - that pretty much only want high 90’s and applicants might as well get a dose of reality now.</p>
<p>I am not as experienced as most of you in this by any means but if what Exie says about top schools stats being inflated (which totally makes sense) then wouldnt it be true that many other schools are in effect deflated?</p>
<p>So, if an acronym school (I hate naming names) has a 15-20% acceptance rate, due to marketing, reputation, and overall hype bolstering up their applications so high that even very very gifted academic talented kids will not be accepted just due to the limited spots alone, not factoring in any other reasons like FA, personality, etc,</p>
<p>In contrast there is school x that has a lovely campus, dedicated faculty and just as rigorous a curriculum but not all the marketing, history or hype and has a 50% admit rate. It seems a lot of kids would turn their noses up at that 50% but in reality, they still could be denied come March 10th from this school. Its not 100% admit rate. They are still admitting a full class of about the same number of kids or sometimes smaller, they just dont have the work of going through several thousand applications.</p>
<p>I think what RuralMama said is very true, school stats are seen as the end all be all while the schools are expected to see past Bs and Cs and low test scores. </p>
<p>I have appreciated the advise of SevenDad and others who have been trying to say, look past the hype. I agree sometimes it gets closer to “Dont even bother” in tone (from various posters) but the real message is valuable. Give other schools and experiences a chance before deciding you only have 3 options. Or, 2. You wont ever know what you missed.</p>
<p>Now when I check the websites of A&E, Hotch, DA, SPS I cannot find any mention at all of typical SSAT scores…</p>
<p>@GMTplus7: I know when we visited SPS that they had a little card with the profile of the admitted class…including average SSAT. Also, some of the numbers being thrown around might come from one-to-one conversations with AOs…as the example I often cite from our own experience did.</p>
<p>Thanks ExieMitAlum for getting me back on track. In the end, I feel it’s fair to say that the Admission Teams at these schools are very good at what they do and get it right most of the time. In other words, there is a method to the madness.</p>
<p>Ah the convenience of only taking one exam…here in the UK you pre-test at each school individually in the hopes of receiving a conditional offer and then test again a year to 18 months later (towards the end of the equivalent of 7th grade) to confirm your offer. Completely different system!</p>
<p>To HailuMu’s last, this is precisely why I believe in those Hidden Gems. Not all these bright kids can get into the same more prominently known schools and it’s not because they can’t cut it academically, there just aren’t enough beds. Which I believe over the years has raised the academic bars of some schools which in turn have impressive college matriculations and overall fabulous facilities. This effect has rattled through out the whole boarding school spectrum. Schools back in my Dad’s day, or even mine, that would not even be on the radar screen back then are today a big blimp. This has made the concept of fit all the more important. Look at the matriculation list of those schools that are not mentioned daily on this forum. There are some great colleges which too have been greatly transformed by this domino effect. Think about getting in Boston College, Wake Forrest, UVA or even Georgetown today as compared to 40 years ago. The very same can now be said of the Hidden Gem boarding schools.</p>
<p>Re: SSATs. These are probably most relevant to a school and to an applicant in the freshman or sophomore application process. For junior year, senior year and PG, the schools want the PSAT, ACT, or SAT. Point being that the schools may give these later year applicants more leeway in scores, as their scores are never reported by the school.</p>
<p>@london203, @ChoatieMom, and @SevenDad: I realize I am coming to this thread a few years late, but I totally relate to what london203 feels. I really tire of posts where the accolades of the applicant are laid out: top student, president of this, captain of that, loads of ECs, 96% SSAT, followed by “what are my chances”? It’s tiring, this fishing for compliments.</p>
<p>I have a boy who is a strong student, but not the best; who is soft-spoken and unassuming, but has an inate sense of honesty, principle and personal integrity; who does beautiful paintings on his own; who researches and studies different scientific subjects on his own; who is kind and caring and thoughtful. Who questions assumptions and seeks answers. And I wonder - how do we show this to AOs so they can see it? It seems to me that the interview is one important avenue. And yet he can be so shy when asked about himself. I sometimes despair that no one will recognize his curiosity, intellect and humanity.</p>