I'm not really ivy material, but I'd like to be chanced for Cornell..

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
101

<p>Apply. You might get lucky. If finances are an issue, ask for an application fee waiver.</p>

<p>You have a very, very slim chance if you apply.
You have absolutely no chance if you do not.
Any finite positive number is greater than zero.</p>

<p>If all you get is an interview followed by a nice rejection letter, you get to practice interviewing with an intelligent, articulate person (usually). This could help you nail down a spot in another school. Contrary to what some people post here, no professional admissions official is going to subject an applicant to public ridicule.</p>

<p>Therre might be an endowed quota for people with your last name or something. The Ivies have a lot of generous alumni. Some of them are very, very strange. Since these schools are all private organizations, they do not have to discuss, or even admit to, their more bizarre "hooks".</p>

<p>Good luck in finding a school that will help you follow your dreams. There is good and even excellent education outside the Ivy League.</p>

102

<p>Its too bad such a prestigewhore like yourself is trapped at Upenn, and not in wharton. Just think about the few years after you graduate when your friends from Princeton, Harvard, Yale, columbia, stanford or even Amherst and Williams will look down on you. Why would your employer employ someone with a Penn degree when there are just flat out better Universities than Penn. I mean seriously, I'll give you that in your sick world of prestige-mongering, a penn degree may edge out a Cornell degree in many fields, but then again they both get "pwned" by HYP Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore if we are strictly talking about the arts schools. I mean, your school just doesn't stack up to a number of other schools. </p>

<p>Lets do the math of people who are confirmed to be more prestigious than you:</p>

<p>aprox freshman class size from collegeboard.com:
amherst 450<br>
Swarthmore 372
Williams 540
Harvard 1668
Princeton 1242
Yale 1318
Stanford 1721
Columbia 1333</p>

<p>Grand Total: 8644</p>

<p>So in your year alone, there will be about 8500 people who are officially more prestigious than you, because all of those schools are decidedly more prestigious than penn.</p>

103

<p>
[quote]
Actually, Penn did release the data for the individual schools. The acceptance rate data can be found here: CAS acceptance rate - step right up!
You'll see that the CAS rate is actually slightly lower than the overall reported rate, due to engineering's very high acceptance rate. Wharton's only acts to balance it out, since it is roughly the same size as engineering.
Furthermore, the deans revealed in 2004 that the difference in Wharton and CAS SAT averages were only 14 points. Source? this book: Amazon.com: The Running of the Bulls: Inside the Cutthroat Race from Wharton to Wall Street: Nicole Ridgway: Books

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</p>

<p>I'm so glad that you were able to do all of the great detective work, muerte, piecing together pieces of random data from different years and different sources. If Penn didn't have something to hide, why wouldn't they release their data a la Cornell?</p>

<p>Cornell</a> Factbook - Undergraduate Enrollment
Cornell</a> Factbook - Undergraduate Admissions</p>

<p>But at the end of the day, you can't prove to anyone that Penn's SAS is systematically better than Cornell's CAS. The admissions rate, while largely meaningless, is virtually the same -- 16% and 18%, respectively, and that's not even considering that Penn takes a lot more students ED, which helps to mechanically lower their overall rate.</p>

<p>And on the SAT score front, all we know is that both Penn SAS and Cornell CAS have an average SAT score of between 1410-1430. And frankly, that's not much to write home about, as there will be a lot more variation between any two students in one of these schools than there will be between the average student across the two schools.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, you should note that 99% of Penn freshman come from the top 10% of their HS classes (compared to Cornell's 88%).

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<p>You do realize that less than half of students are now reporting class rank, right? So the data is largely meaningless. Even if there weren't structural problems with the way the data is being reported and the Cornell CAS number is in the mid 90s.</p>

<p>
[quote]
So here it is: the big guns. Or just gun, really. Hopefully it will blow away your ignorance: The Center for Measuring University Performance ranks Penn in its top cluster of research universities in the nation, tied with Columbia, Harvard, MIT and Stanford.
Feel free to check this out here: <a href="http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D"&gt;http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf

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</a></p>

<p>Sigh. We've been through this before, muerte. Nobody in higher ed respects that study, as it lacks any sort of empirical basis to determine the <em>quality</em> of a university or its research programs. The NRC rankings are much better regarded:</p>

<p>NRC</a> Rankings</p>

<p>Under which Cornell ranks 4th for all scores and 9th for all nonzero scores, whereas it ranks Penn 9th and 14th, respectively. </p>

<p>But we can argue numbers and split hairs all day and get nowhere.</p>

<p>The funny thing is that you completely choose to disregard any plausible reasons for why a student might actually want to attend Cornell over Penn. In you mind, it just shouldn't happen, which is dangerously naive and misguided. Cornell offers courses in Old Norse -- Penn doesn't. Cornell offers fantastic research opportunities in experimental physics to undergraduates, while Penn's a bit lacking in this regard. How you can't see compelling reasons to attend Cornell is beyond me. </p>

<p>But we've been through this all before and yet you persist with your stubborn and uninformed views. Can't we just agree that both Cornell and Penn are two fantastic undergraduate institutions that any student would be happy to attend? That Penn offers a compelling urban experience, while Cornell offers an enticing rural and natural setting. Penn has a decent basketball culture. Cornell has an unrivaled hockey culture. And that Cornell has stronger offerings in the physical sciences, Penn has stronger offerings in the social sciences, and that they are both equally strong in the humanities.</p>

<p>Any other stance is just moronic. And your attitude doesn't exactly encourage baby-making.</p>

104

<p>Here are some more NRC rankings in humanities areas that Muerteapablo forgot</p>

<p>Classics</p>

<p>12 Cornell 3.73
13 Penn 3.62</p>

<p>Comp. Lit.</p>

<p>6 Cornell 4.31
11 Penn 3.99</p>

<p>English</p>

<p>7 Cornell 4.49
8 Penn 4.47</p>

<p>German</p>

<p>3 Cornell 4.19
16 Penn 3.26</p>

<p>** Philosophy
8 Cornell 4.11
26 Penn 3.15 ouch **</p>

<p>Ecol/Evol/Behav</p>

<p>4 Cornell 4.44
14 Penn 3.90</p>

<p>Aerospace Eng</p>

<p>6 Cornell 3.93
Penn Unranked</p>

<p>Civil Eng</p>

<p>6 Cornell 4.30
penn Unranked</p>

<p>**Electrical Eng</p>

<p>7 Cornell 4.35
41 Penn 3.11**</p>

<p>(both unranked in industrial engineering)</p>

<p>Materials Science</p>

<p>3 Cornell 4.35
10 Penn 3.79</p>

<p>Mechanical Eng</p>

<p>7 Cornell 4.15
22 Penn 3.40</p>

<p>Astrophys/Astron</p>

<p>9 Cornell 3.98
Penn Unranked</p>

<p>Chemistry</p>

<p>6 Cornell 4.55
25 Penn 3.78</p>

<p>Computer Science</p>

<p>5 Cornell 4.64
24 Penn 3.31</p>

<p>**Geosciences</p>

<p>9 Cornell 4.15
75 Penn 2.34 uber ouch**</p>

<p>Mathematics</p>

<p>15 Cornell 4.05
22 Penn 3.87</p>

<p>(oceanography: Both Unranked)</p>

<p>Physics</p>

<p>6 Cornell 4.75
17 Penn 4.09</p>

<p>Stat/Biostat</p>

<p>3 Cornell 4.37
25 Penn 3.22</p>

<p>(geography: both unranked)</p>

<p>Political Science</p>

<p>15 Cornell 3.85
42 Penn 2.68</p>

<p>So there are 41 ranking categories, omitting categories where neither school is ranked leaves us with 38 categories. I have just listed each category in which cornell beats penn. Cornell beats penn in 19/38 eligible categories, and therefore penn and cornell TIE.</p>

105

<p>
[quote]
I agree completely. But if you don't commend every single Cornell student as a Rhodes Scholar and a future NObel Prize winner, many on this board get miffed. The level of stupidity was, at time, downright astounding. 3 out of 4 of my recitation work group didn't understand a concept that had been gone over in FOUR different classes prior to that semester. One girl in my expository writing class, and I'm not exaggerating, wrote at the level of an advanced SEVENTH grader.

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<p>You were in a contract school. Contract schools admit based on fit, not on intelligence.</p>

106

<p>
[quote]
Just think about the few years after you graduate when your friends from Princeton, Harvard, Yale, columbia, stanford or even Amherst and Williams will look down on you.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That won't be a problem. Muerteapablo has no friends</p>

107

<p>
[quote]
You were in a contract school. Contract schools admit based on fit, not on intelligence.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nah. He was in engineering. But he's smoking something if he doesn't think that there is such stupidity at every school in the country.</p>

108

<p>
[quote]
Thanks, dontno. Obviously some of them are Rhodes Scholar material, but a great many of them... are not.

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</p>

<p>Same issue at Penn</p>

109

<p>
[quote]
That won't be a problem. Muerteapablo has no friends

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<p>No need to resort to this. It doesn't really help our cause, now, does it?</p>

110

<p>Yea, my dad went to princeton, and one of his friends from his graduating class works as a piano mover (mover, not seller, IE, he takes pianos off and on trucks and into peoples houses) in boston. Hes not stupid, but he sure as hell is not a rhodes scholar.</p>

111

<p>Wow, someone on this board sure is an arrogant prestige whore. I've got 2270 SAT's blah blah blah.</p>

112

<p>Wow, the Cornell people really degenerated here. You all wanted to bash Penn, but you couldn't do it from Cornell's standpoint, so you enlisted the help of HYP. That basically just proves my point.</p>

<p>I'm glad you guys all have an awesome fit for yourselves at your contract colleges.</p>

<p>Also, Penn degrees do not get pwned by Columbia, or Swarthmore. A ton of kids here got into Swat and didn't want to go. And although I was waitlisted at Columbia, I have tons of friends who got in and didn't go, and there are plenty of kids at Columbia who didn't get into Penn. The cross-admit statistics reveal that the two schools are at an almost 50-50 split.</p>

<p>That's all I have to say; go on bashing whatever school you want now. I won't be back. Brown Man will probably declare victory now, which would be hilarious.</p>

113

<p>I am a Cornell parent here.</p>

<p>muterteapablo - are you saying Penn and Columbia are at par when it comes to cross admit? What are you smoking? I told my older daughter that I wouldn't pay for Penn or Brown. My husband wouldn't let her go to Duke(accepted), she was rejected by Columbia and HYPS, so she is at Cornell. If Wharton undergrad is Penn's claim to fame, it is very sad. It is beyond me why people would go to an undergraduate business school, AEM included. Why pay for something when it could be on the job training.</p>

<p>I hope everyone continues to believe Cornell is the worst Ivy, I am hoping I could get my D2 in before people change their mind.</p>

114

<p>I don't think anyone at Cornell is going to stand up and say most of admitted students at Cornell are at par with Harvard, Princeton, Yale or Stanford students, numbers would tell you otherwise. If our older daughter was admitted to one of those schools two years ago, as a consumer, I would have encouraged her to go to HPYS. Hindsight, if she was presented with the opportunity to go to HPYS or Cornell today, she would choose Cornell, and as a paying customer, I would agree to pay for it. It is the same reason our D2 is seriously considering Cornell when the time comes, not other more prestigious schools.</p>

<p>muerteapablo - it's great you love Penn because of....but there is nothing to justify Penn is a better or worse school than Cornell.</p>

115

<p>Wow, this is embarassing on both sides of the spectrum. It's so obvious that the school you go to determines which one you think is better. As a senior in high school, I think that UPenn is slightly better overall than Cornell, but does that make it the better school for me? No. I am applying to a few Ivies, but not UPenn. It's a fantastic school; no doubt. It is not for me; Cornell is my number one choice. Just calm down and realize that you are biased (which I will be wherever I get accepted). There are better parts of each school.</p>

<p>Let's make babies, muertea.</p>

116

<p>Piano moving with a Princeton degree?</p>

117

<p>From oldfort, who indeed seems to be getting old:

[quote]
are you saying Penn and Columbia are at par when it comes to cross admit? What are you smoking?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am smoking facts, my dear friend. In 2004, the cross-admit split was only 9-points apart out of 100. That's almost exactly 50-50.</p>

<p>Yes, when you went to college in the 1970s, this was not the case. Now it is. Times change.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I told my older daughter that I wouldn't pay for Penn or Brown.

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</p>

<p>That's great! She obviously wasn't a good enough student to get into either. That's the real reason she's at Cornell. You might as well say that you wouldn't pay for Harvard, either; it's just as true, and it probably makes you feel better.</p>

118

<p>Also, chronicfuture, let's do this.</p>

119

<p>muertea: oldfort's D1 was accepted to Duke... which is just as good if not better than Penn.
If she was good enough to get into Cornell AND Duke, she was obviously a talented candidate.</p>

120

<p>So...I'm gonna go ahead and guess that "I won't be back" from muertea was just in jest...</p>

<p>Too bad...</p>

<p>FWIW, Cornell is probably number 5 on my list of schools I applied to. I don't feel Cornell is any better than UPenn (a great school, I have a friend who goes there), but it's certainly no worse, and people trying to argue that are seriously just prestige whores who need to feel better about their own school.</p>