<p>“all American universities will pay the price in reputation decline and lower marginal ability to attract top students.”</p>
<p>Finally, someone who understands the world…</p>
<p>Firstly , Thanks a lot people for all the replies. I apologize for not having replied to this post since I have been busy with my board exams which have started. </p>
<p>Also, Please stop making this thread about US vs Europe. Please suggest which university and state why. </p>
<p>I am really confused with where to go, Since I have never had a “Dream University” or destination. My “Dream” is to become an engineer and a successful one, work for a few years (earn some money) then get a masters degree or an MBA from HYPMSCO or directly go to grad school if i get a scholarship.</p>
<p>When I hear the name “Imperial” I can’t help but see an image of a person with a crown on his/her head. BUH, BUH BUH BUMMM…Sorry for the digression, carry on.</p>
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<p>While I agree this shouldn’t be a thread on what education system is better, etc. the differences between to the university systems are HUGE, and you need to decide what is a better fit for YOU. The curriculum and Imperial College and Michigan are so different. In addition, it matters greatly if you want to live in Europe or the US after graduation. In my opinion, answering those two questions should determine the UMich vs. Imperial College debate. NOT which one is more prestigious, etc. They will both prepare you well, so it all depends on what general system you prefer, and where you plan on living.</p>
<p>mathdumb, you need to understand that the person who happens to agree with you also believes that Emory is superior to schools like Michigan or Berkeley. So, I suggest that you check her credibility (and line of thinking) before you feel assured that your assertion is correct.</p>
<p>OP, you really need to ask yourself where you want to work after college. I would imagine that it’s extremely difficult for you to work in the US - as an engineer - coming out of Imperial College, unless you are an American citizen or a green card holder. However so confused you are regarding about your school selection, the real fact that you’re facing right now is whether you’d like the US more than the UK and vice versa.</p>
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<p>Uh, no. The 2nd tier students who cannot get into any of the local universities go overseas purely on their own (or in rare cases, their matriculating institution’s) funding. </p>
<p>Government and private sector scholarships in Singapore target the top 1-2% or so of each batch to send them to the Ivies, Oxbridge, Imperial, Berkeley and the like. Those top students could get into any university within Singapore with no problem.</p>
<p>frankchn – it must be somewhat disappointing to have to attend Stanford instead of the far superior university in Singapore?</p>
<p>Or are you saying mathdumb is off base wrt Singapore?</p>
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<p>mathdumb is off-base with regards to the situation in Singapore. Most people would prefer the Ivies to NUS or NTU (possibly with the exception of aspirant doctors).</p>
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<p>Imperial College still offers the 3-year BEng in some engineering specialties, but the college’s standard undergraduate engineering degree is now the 4-year MEng. The [4-year course](<a href=“http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/ugprospectus/facultiesanddepartments/mechanicalengineering”>http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/ugprospectus/facultiesanddepartments/mechanicalengineering</a>) is a highly specialized degree where you pretty much study engineering only (you won’t be able to “double major” e.g. in economics or IR as you want to).</p>
<p>Please note that the British MEng is ** not ** a research degree and, therefore, is not equivalent to an “MSc by research”. The “MSc by research” in most UK universities is actually a somewhat rare graduate degree that some students receive as a “consolation prize” when they fail to get a PhD. Very few students pursue it as a stand-alone degree.</p>
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<p>I believe most top students in the UK, continental Europe or Australia would opt to get their bachelor’s degrees in their home countries and then go to the US for graduate school. The main reasons for that are twofold: first, it is much cheaper to go to college at home than in the US; second, US bachelor’s degrees, especially liberal arts degrees, are considered shallow by European standards. American PhD degrees on the other hand are normally considered deeper/more prestigious than their European counterparts, especially in areas like engineering, CS, and natural sciences.</p>
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<p>mathdumb, you really are math dumb if you can’t compare the ages of universities. Either that or you just don’t know basic history. There’s no way any American university is older than Imperial College London. Europe didn’t even know the land mass that is now America existed when Imperial was founded. In general, American universities are much younger than European ones.</p>
<p>Hopefully I didn’t read that wrong seeing as no one pointed out this glaringly erroneous statement for three pages.</p>
<p>Bruno, it depends on the university and the student. Undergrads can take many graduate level classes and delve very deeply into their chosen fields of study, particularly in subjects such as Engineering, the Sciences and Economics. This sort of flexibility is not availlable at universities in other countries. </p>
<p>I also think that the resources availlable to students in the US (particularly in Engineering and the Sciences), even to undergrads, is unmatched.</p>
<p>So, where I agree that selling the farm to attend college in the US is obviously not worth it, for those who have the means, attending college in the US is worth it.</p>
<p>scritzo, mathdumb might have been referring to Asian universities? that’s the only conclusion that makes sense.</p>
<p>^ If read mathdumb’s quote earlier in the thread, another user compared the endowments of Michigan and Imperial and that was what mathdumb responded to.</p>
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Hostile much? Especially since you’re wrong. There are plenty of British universities that have not been around very long at all. In fact, all but about a dozen were founded in the 1900s, and many excellent ones like Warwick and York weren’t founded until the 1960s.</p>
<p>Michigan can be traced back to the 1830s, whereas Imperial in its present form has only been around since around 1900. Unless my knowledge of “basic history” is way off, I am under the distinct impression Europe was familiar with America in 1907. </p>
<p>I disagree, however, that age differences account for endowment gaps. There are other factors at work. UK universities are considerably cheaper for UK/EU residents than even public American universities, and alumni giving is not particularly a big deal in the UK, for example.</p>
<p>^^^Actually Michigan can be traced back to 1817.</p>
<p>True, but I counted it in its present form (i.e. its Ann Arbor campus).</p>
<p>I also disagree with mathdumb on his perceived superiority of Asian universities and the supposed downfall of American universities.</p>
<p>The cultures in the US and Asia are just completely different. In Asia, there is a very heavy emphasis on math. This is not something new, it’s been like that for decades. What I think is backwards there, however, is the lack of emphasis on creativity and the obsession with testing. In Asia, tests are everything. I remember my parents telling me how in Taiwan, there was one standardized test that everyone took at the same time and it basically determined your career. The only way to go into medicine (the most sought after career) was to score in the top 500 out of 100,000 test takers for that exam). But does scoring well on a single test necessarily mean that someone would be a good doctor? ECs and other factors matter much less in Asia. </p>
<p>I think there is a big problem with a heavy reliance on exams. The way to do well on tests is to answer in the way the tests want, but there is only so much a test can measure. Also, in the US, we can retake standardized tests; not so in Asia. And early advancement in math alone does not denote superiority.</p>
<p>schrizto, Imperial College London was founded in the last century, Michigan was founded in the 19th century. You speak like an American with no idea about the world except Oxford and Cambridge.
Oh I forgot, you’re the greatest people in the world, right? How about you check up where Kazakhstan and North Korea are before commenting?
I’m concerned how utter ignorance and injustice like this can be accepted by so many experts and even embraced by some others…</p>
<p>And mathdumb doesn’t mean my math is dumb, it means that mathematicians are often dumb about common sense stuffs.</p>
<p>I don’t think American schools are dropping, just asian schools are becoming more prestigious. I understand why mathdumb says asian schools are on the rise, but unless I missed something, American schools aren’t declining in quality, only in terms of relative quality. If that’s the case, and its just that Asian schools are becoming better relatively, shouldn’t European schools also fare worse in the rankings because they are being displaced by rapidly improving Asian universities?</p>