<p>mathdumb, many of America’s wealthiest universities are anywhere from 40 years older to several years younger than Imperial. </p>
<p>Stanford University: Founded in 1891, endowment of $13 billion
MIT: Founded in 1865, endowment of $8 billion
University of Chicago: Founded in 1890, endowment of $5 billion
Cornell University: Founded in 1865, endowment of $4 billion
Rice University: Founded in 1912, endowment of $3.5 billion
Vanderbilt University: Founded in 1873, endowment of $3 billion
Uiversity of Southern California: Founded in 1880, endowment of $2.5 billion
Johns Hopkins University: Founded in 1876, endowment of $2 billion
University of California-Los Angeles: Founded in 1919, endowment of $2 billion
Caltech: Founded in 1891, endowment of $1.5 billion
Georiga Tech: Founded in 1885, endowment of $1.5 billion
Carnegie Mellon: Founded in 1900, endowment of $750 million<br>
Imperial College: Founded in 1907, endowment of $150 million</p>
<p>All of those US universities were founded in the 1865-1920 period and they still manage to have endowments far larger than Imperial’s ($150 million). </p>
<p>It so happens that most endowments have really been developped since the 1960s and not before.</p>
<p>Alex, there’s no point trying to argue to the contrary every single thing I say, please.
We all know that by connecting Michigan’s seniority with its endowment, I wasn’t making an absolute statement that a school’s endowment will always be proportional to its age.
There’s no point trying to find exceptions to my observation, I didn’t mean them to be absolute in the first place. I mean, you may as well bring up the fact that the University of Bologna isn’t the richest school in the world…</p>
<p>Then again, you’re the greatest people on earth, so what can I say?</p>
<h2>"Then again, you’re (americans) the greatest people on earth, so what can I say? "</h2>
<p>Mathdumb, it is one thing to discuss educational methodologies, performances, differences, etc. However, this is the second or third time you’ve made a pejorative comment about “americans” in general.</p>
<p>That’s a silly thing to do given most americans living in the US at this time are from families that came from somewhere else (bringing with them their culture, religion, customs). To which americans do you refer? The Italians? The Jews? The Irish? The Spanish>Mexicans? The Vietnamese? The Persians? The Swedes/Norwegians? The Chinese? Pilipinos? The Greeks? The (central asian) Indians or Pakistanis? The (fill in the blank) tens of millions of other immigrants whose families first arrived in the US in the mid/late 1800s? …</p>
<p>mathdumb, I got your point and I feel bad how you were being beaten up in this debate. I really would want to side with you, but to be honest, I cannot find an argument to back up your assertions. You just made a lot of errors in your reasoning and you cannot substantiate your claims yourself. </p>
<p>There are a lot of great universities in Asia. I’ve got friends who went to the U of Tokyo, National U of Singapore, Nanyang, Chulalongkorn, Seoul National, KAIST, U of Hong Kong, National Taiwan U, U of the Philippines, De La Salle U and HKUST. They’re all extremely smart people. They’d probably make the top .01 percent of the world’s most intelligent people. A few of them are MENSA members. But whilst they’re happy to have attended those great Asian universities, they would be happier to to have attended top American universities such as Michigan or CMU or Georgia Tech. Most people who would go to Imperial over Michigan do so for a very personal reason. But given money and visa aren’t an issue, most people would attend Michigan over Imperial. Imperial is great for science, technology and medicine. But outside of the UK, it is not perceived to be in the league of Oxbridge. It’s a far 3rd best in the UK and most people know that there is a huge gap that separates betwwen Oxbridge and Imperial in terms of academic prestige and resources.</p>
<p>Alex, would you know what the current endowment funds are for Cambridge and Oxford? My alumni letter from Cambridge has stopped arriving to me for more than a couple of years now, and so I lost track of the university’s financial situation. Cambridge isn’t as vigorous as Michigan is in soliciting funds from alumni. I think this is where Cambridge needs to improve on. A company lawyer I know who went to Michigan, for example, feels she’s obligated to give back to her alma mater school. She sends in US $5,000 a year to Michigan Law (Sometimes 10k a year.) Take note that that’s an annual thing she does to Michigan Law since 1990. She’s not the richest lawyer I know (but she’s also rich), yet she’s one of the most loyal alma maters to any American school I’ve met around here. I wonder what kind of “brainwashing” does Michigan do to its graduates that they’re very loyal and proud to their school? Or, it must be the water they drink in the campus… lol</p>
I’m going to have to disagree with you there. My experience is limited to the US, but Imperial is highly regarded. Although it is true that its strengths lie in the sciences, its reputation in that area is quite strong.</p>
<p>Furthermore, your claim that there is a “huge gap” between engineering at Imperial and Oxbridge (particularly Oxford) is pretty hard to support.</p>
<p>
Oh, the grass is always greener. Even since my brief return to CC, I’ve noticed multiple American posters with perfectly good domestic options inquiring about applying overseas. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what you define as a “very personal” reason (an ailing grandmother, perhaps? an irrational fear of American football?), but there are perfectly good reasons to choose Imperial. As with Columbia and NYC, of course, London itself is a major draw. Ann Arbor is about as good as a college town can get, but it can’t match the resources and bustling life of London.</p>
<p>For others, the ability to focus in depth in a single area and finish within four years with a master’s degree is appealing, particularly since it takes five years to get a bachelor’s in engineering at many American (public) universities.</p>
<p>mathdumb, I am 100% Lebanese, although I am a citizen of France. Just because I admire American universities does not mean I am a blind lover of the US. In fact, I would rather live in Europe than the US any day. But when it comes to universities, I have to give it to the Americans.</p>
<p>RML, Cambridge’s endowment is about at larger as Michigan’s, though I have not seen its most recent figures. Oxford’s endowment is only slightly smaller.</p>
<p>The guy who thought that imperial college was older than Michigan:
Students from those Asian countries don’t just learn math earlier than American students, they learn different stuffs. Their curriculum focus on a dead solid algebric foundation, and YEARS of advanced analytic geometry, this is a subject that truly builds the IQ and creative thinking. American students virtually jump from algebra to calculus, paving a weak foundation for graduate and above science and math subjects.</p>
<p>RML
Please, by the list you showed, you don’t know asia. You skipped Tsinghua university, who by far publish most frequently and has a much higher presense in international academia, and put some Philippines university in the same calibre as NUS?
You base most of your arguments off popular beliefs and myths, they don’t decide the strength of a school. Asian schools have risen in prestige because their professors are publishing more frequently in “Western” academic journals. This doesn’t mean that they weren’t strong before. Far as academics goes, these schools have for at least a decade been stronger than Western schools. The fact that they don’t show up in Western rankings doesn’t mean that they’re weak, they’re just more conservative in this regard.</p>
<p>Re Tsinghua, like you, I truly think that it’s a great institution of higher learning. I think it’s a research powerhouse and has one of the biggest research outputs of all the universities in Asia, maybe save for Tokyo. Sadly, it does not have the prestige that those American universities have. It does not appeal to the best scholars out there. When one is accepted to study in Michigan and Tsinghua, I’m quite sure one would choose to go to Michigan, even for Chinese citizens who hardly speak English. I bet a substantial number of Tsinghua faculty members have acquired their education at American universities, and they would still choose to attend American universities, if given a choice, over Tsinghua. Tsinghua is one of the best in China, if not the best in that country. But it does not have the prestige outside of China as it has has within China or Chinese-speaking countries. </p>
<p>mathdumb, would you turn down Michigan math for Tsinghua math? Be honest.</p>
<p>For engineering, as Georgia Tech is, by and large, a techie school, yes. And, I’m quite sure about it. U of HK is a multi-disciplinary university.</p>
<p>I didn’t say Imperial College isn’t prestigious. I think it is prestigious, or top 3/4 in the UK, as a whole. But it’s definitely not as prestigious as Oxford, even for engineering. </p>
<p>You said Oxford isn’t popular for engineering. Yet, Oxford’s yield rate for engineering is almost 100% whilst Imperial’s isn’t near that. Oxford’s engineering is also more difficult to get into than Imperial’s. The Entry Standards of Oxford’s engineering is 544, or 20 points lower than Cambridge’s. But Imperial’s Entry Standards is lower. Here’s for Imperial:</p>
<p>And, please, don’t even let me start with Cambridge.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>London is one of the most beautiful metropolitan cities in the world. I would live there over many US cities, for sure. But London itself can’t singlehandedly pull in students to attend London unis or unis that are located in London. If that is so, how come the best students in the UK aren’t in London, but at universities in the “countryside”?</p>
I was referring to quality of education, not prestige. Engineers from either university would be able to find quality jobs, so prestige is hardly an issue. Certainly Imperial is not as prestigious as Oxford or Cambridge. Neither, however, is Michigan.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I never equated Imperial to anything. I merely said a huge gap in quality exists only in your mind.</p>
<p>Times League Table - General Engineering
Cambridge 100
Oxford 97.2
Imperial 95.7
Durham 90.8
Warwick 84.1</p>
<p>As you can clearly see, there is no sharp drop between Oxbridge and Imperial. In fact, Imperial scores closer to Oxford than Oxford does to Cambridge. </p>
<p>Guardian League Table - General Engineering
Oxford 100<br>
Imperial College 98.2<br>
Cambridge 91.6<br>
Warwick 81.3</p>
<p>Again, the sharp drop comes after rather than before Imperial.</p>
<p>
For the same reason that Dartmouth, Duke, and Yale continue to attract students despite their locations. Oxford and Cambridge have a tradition of excellence that long predates London’s eminence as a major world city.</p>
<p>In any case, let’s not exaggerate “countryside.” Oxford is an hour away from London by train. In fact, I’ve made the commute in 45 minutes.</p>
<p>hippo, you’re just going in circles. You repeated what I said and contradicted a few points. But every time I respond to clarify those points you failed to understand from me, you answer back only to corroborate my statements. </p>
<p>For the record, I did not claim that there is a wide difference between Oxford and IC in academic quality. I only said there is a wide difference between the two in academic prestige and resources. I don’t ALWAYS touch topics related to academic quality, simply because I cannot measure that perse, and neither could you. But to say that IC is in the league of Oxford, as a whole, is entirely a huge mistake.</p>
<p>As for Oxford vs Michigan for academic prestige, you’re correct that Oxford is more prestigious than Michigan is as a whole. But the thing about this specific competition is that, at least, there are volumes upon volumes of rearons to choose Michigan over Oxford. There is none for IC over Oxford that I can think of immediately. </p>
<p>I would choose Oxford undergrad over Michigan undergrad. But I would choose Michigan Ross, Michigan Law, Michigan Med, Michigan Computer Science, Michigan Engineering over Oxford in a heat beat. On top of that, I would rather study in America than in the UK. What reason would you have in choosing IC over Oxford?</p>
<p>Fristly - I had never expected so many replies :). </p>
<p>As far as Visiting the Universities is concerned, It’s not possible, Since I have already been to London (though it was 4 years ago) and I had been to the US in January, But that was a family trip and the only university that I was able to see was University of California - Berkley and I fell in love with the campus (I don’t know much about the campuses in the United states but I fell in love with Berkley and I regret to not have taken my SAT II’s and applied there and repeating a year is a choice that my parent’s and I have completely ruled out. </p>
<p>Anyways, Back to the topic. I do not know what is the job condition in the US or the UK for mechanical engineers (unless I get in to an Stanford, MIT, Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial, Michigan or Berkley for my Graduate degree with a very good scholarship or a work-study program, If they have it!). </p>
<p>The Double major is just an option which I may or may not choose to take as I have only been accepted to the college of engineering for Michigan and the rest (and engineering is tough), but it would be great to do a minor in Economics or International relations (which has always been interesting for me). </p>
<p>Updated requirements</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I have always loved Brown University (Ivy) for what I hear from my cousin who attends the university is that the professors are very friendly and helpful (and like any other Indian, he (my cousin) is very smart and the professor usually takes a group or even the whole class to other universities (namely Cornell, MIT and Stanford) for research work. - Which i am interested in. </p></li>
<li><p>Sports = I am not the best player on the team, but I can surely play soccer and I love it. I had watched a few American Football games and I like the sport a lot and I would love to learn it. I am an NBA fan and My vote this year (like any other year) goes to Lebron James for the MVP and Shannon Brown for the dunk contest. </p></li>
<li><p>Parties = I love partying. The best way to blow off steam after an examination or a huge win over the rival university. I do not drink though (being a Muslim). </p></li>
<li><p>Academics = This is one thing over which I would compromise any requirement. IT has to be good.</p></li>
<li><p>Atmosphere = I don’t want the tension of rivalry and killing the opponent to succeed. At cut throat universities I want to battle the professors, not the students. </p></li>
<li><p>Infrastructure = I should be good. New, Hi Tech and updated facilities (Although I prefer a paper and a pencil over a laptop while taking notes). </p></li>
<li><p>Girls = One of the main reason I never applied to RPI and Georgia tech (which might be foolish to some people). College is going to be tough where as academics are concerned but I do want to have a good life. SO they better be good :). </p></li>
</ul>
<p>Finally, Thanks a lot people for helping me out. </p>
<p>@Alexandre - I would love to meet you. I do have your number. I do not have time due to my exams going on. But sometime after March.</p>
<p>RML, you realize that you tend to focus on superficial stuffs like prestige, myths, stereotypes, and ignore the actual situation?
You said that the academic strength of a school cannot be measured, that’s obviously not true. Firstly you can look at the selectivity of the college: Michigan admits student much less selectively than Imperial. Michigan is obliged to admit a large population of less competitive in-state students. Secondly, you look at publications, which Michigan has an edge over Imperial, but it’s BIG, so that does account for this slight edge.
You said that London and England are not enough to attract students, that’s not true. OP, when you choose Michigan engineering, you are devoting your career to a technologically barren, politically unstable, religious, and drastically declining land. Give Imperial a chance, give Europe a chance, they are the leaders in technology.
RML, I know you’ll say that America has companies like google, microsoft, apple, right? Yeah, these are declining business tycoons who have shipped and will ship much of their jobs to Europe and Asia. These companies cannot survive on American/Michigan engineers. In fact, Google admits that foreign engineers are superior to American ones. Wonder where google gets its new ideas from? America? I don’t think so…</p>
<p>“OP, when you choose Michigan engineering, you are devoting your career to a technologically barren, politically unstable, religious, and drastically declining land.”</p>
<p>With remarks like the above, It appears that there might be someone on line that is “unstable.” What a simplistic and ridiculous attitude. You clearly have very little grasp of American and what we have and will continue to accomplish. Everyone knows why so many so many jobs were shipped to Asia. It’s because big business like to pay peanuts and the Asians work for them.</p>