For the top boarding schools, how important are grades and SSAT scores as opposed to having the right hook or tons of extracurricular activities? I’ve been reading the posts for some time now and it seems most believe grades and SSAT scores aren’t critical for acceptance or indicators of success at the boarding schools. I see scores in the 60%, 70% and 80% for SSAT among the posters on this forum … people say a lot of 99% students don’t get in, but would the schools truly take a 70% student over a 99% because of ECs?
I don’t think that anyone here will tell you that grades aren’t important - they are.
What about SSAT scores?
It’s important too, but not enough by itself. Schools may take 70-80% ssat kid with full paying, hooked urm kid over 99% fa kid unhooked and orm.
Most of 99% ssat kids also have a decent EC.
CLNMOM: you are asking the question to which there is no real answer or rule. If your name is Rockefeller and you got an 82 SSAT and have a B average you will probably get in everywhere you apply. Let’s use Andover as our school. Why? You won’t embarrass the school, you can manage the work, you r name lends important cachet, and they see endowments and buildings in your parents donations. If your name is John Doe and you have a 3.0 and an 82SSAT and nothing else you will not get in. Same candidate but an all star lacrosse player you will likely get in. Now for everyone else, there are bands of candidates that bear different burdens. If you need financial aid you better be an all star if all you bring to the table is your perfect GPA and SSAT.
Now, if you have several impressive extracurriculars and you have a 3.5 and 95 SSAT you are in a weird place. If you are full pay you have a much better shot than if you need financial aid.
Lastly, there is some debate over this but we have observed that SSAT trumps grades every time. Meaning a high SSAT validates a high GPA, a high SSAT indicates potential, a lower SSAT with high GPA tends to infer less rigorous academics. A high SSAT correlates very highly with the SAT. Schools use their SAT scores as a marketing tool. The SAT is a huge factor in college admissions for now and high SSATs are an objective measure whereas grades cannot be.
AND this is not always the case, @Center. It’s important to remember that kids are not just statistics. And there are wonderful Hidden Gems schools which will provide rigorous academics and a great education along with plenty of everything else just about any kid is looking for-- those schools have a more holistic view and will value applicants for a wider range of grades/SSAT scores etc. This was our experience. DD ended up with great choices despite abysmal SSAT scores (and we needed generous FA). The rest of her app was solid, though she never won awards or played sports. (She has become an athlete at BS!). There really is room at the table for many kinds of students… but not so much at the tippy top brand name schools. The wider the net you cast, the better.
IMHO
There are anomalies, but I wouldn’t count on being one. And there are hooks, but if you truly have one I think you know it.
For the rest of the student body, your SSATs should be close to the published average and your grades should be consistent with your SSATs. But that is just table stakes … I.e. Necessary but not sufficient. It won’t get you in but can keep you out. Once you have table stakes, I think it’s an assessment of who you are and what you bring that is special.
Cameo43: you are absolutely correct and I agree. I was just giving some very general examples that are fairly reliable at the Brand name schools :). In fact we decided against applying to several of the top schools because we were a bit turned off by certain things.
My opinion and experiences differ. Good grades (assuming they were attained with some rigor) will trump SSAT scores, all other things being equal, anytime. Schools would rather have a kid who works really hard and is driven than a bright underachiever.
This discussion is a perfect example of YMMV and why anyone asking which part of the application is most important or how heavily does “X” weigh is not going to find much satisfaction here.
The answer to these questions is that all components matter, but they matter within the context of what any given school is looking for in any given year and in the context of the package any individual applicant is bringing to the table. This matrix gets large and unpredictable quickly.
So, do the best you can on all of the components and let the chips fall where they may. That’s all you or anyone can do.
doschicos: there is so much grade inflation that these schools look very hard at all/other components to validate. grades never trump an SSAT. they both have meaning and weight but i assure you that Andover is going to wonder about straight A’s and a 72% SSAT.
“there is so much grade inflation that these schools look very hard at all/other components to validate”
No doubt there is grade inflation at some schools - not all - but I stand by my comments. The boarding schools know a lot of the schools from which students apply - both public and private. If a kid is slacking at home with his/her parents around to manage things and harp on them occasionally, the kid will slack even harder at boarding school where they’ll face a rigorous schedule, more autonomy, and many distractions. BSs want kids who are self starters, students with the emotional maturity to be self directed and students who will take advantage of their opportunities both inside and outside the classroom. You will find outliers at the top schools that got in with SSAT scores in the 70s/80s more than you will find kids who got in with Cs and Bs. I’m not talking an occasional B but a B or C average. But, as ChoatieMom states, all components matter, and they will be looked at not just within the context of what a given school is looking for that year but also within the context of the student’s previous schooling and other opportunities and circumstances.
I tend to agree with Center as a general rule. I think grades can only trump SSATs if the AO knows the school the kid comes form very very well … Eg a Horace Mann or some such.
Sans hooks and not counting on being an anomaly, that is my view for the top schools (which was the OP’s question)
“Sans hooks and not counting on being an anomaly, that is my view for the top schools (which was the OP’s question)”
Sans hooks and not counting on being an anomaly, the answer is the applicant needs BOTH the grades and the test scores.
Here’s the OPs original question: For the top boarding schools, how important are grades and SSAT scores as opposed to having the right hook or tons of extracurricular activities?
6teesearch and doschicos: I think your comments are all valid as is the OPs original question. I did comment that there is no real answer…LOL. There are so many variables. Yes applicants need grades and scores. It is indeed a shifting algorithm. I would imagine there are a great many other nuances to an applicant that offer clues as well as to a students motivation, drive, flexibility, potential etc. A star athlete with a 3.5 and a 90 SSAT is a very very hot commodity. I.e they have demonstrated commitment and self discipline to be a great athlete and still do well in school. A 4.0 with 99% and nothing else but academic ECs may be perceived as one dimensional. A straight A student with a lower than range SSAT is trickier: is their school not rigorous; is there grade inflation? Is the kid a really hard worker. Will the student succeed via drive anyway? Those students require more analyses. That is why the right hook is extremely important. The hook also validates grades and SSATs. Nothing really trumps anything but they do work off of eachother. Lastly, we have been told for years that tons of ECs actually hurts many applicants. They want a mile deep not a mile wide.
And let’s not forget that while we’re debating the value of individual components, the applicant pools at all of these schools are filled with students who have top grades, top scores, the right depth of ECs, the right hooks, the perfect level of “niceness,” the correct last name, etc. So if these questions are trying to give you a sense of how your student will fare if any of his/her components is underwhelming or lacking, know that the competition is not lacking in those areas.
This is where @SevenDad’s mantra about casting a wide net around appropriate schools comes in handy – apply mostly to schools where your student’s overall profile is above average for that school. Don’t apply to reach schools hoping that those schools either won’t notice the areas where your student is not above average or will decide to put undue emphasis on other components to compensate. That is magical thinking.
Thank you to all those who replied on this thread. As you can see, I am a new poster to the forum, although I’ve been reading for a few months now. I am not looking for any real answers but other’s observations based on experience or what they may have heard elsewhere. I think one poster above answered what I have been wondering … that is, how do BS reconcile a student whose grades are all A’s but with low test scores. I guess I was surprised to see so many students who posted in the other threads about “Chances of Getting In” where they show stellar grades but low test scores. Based on my experience tutoring kids for standardized tests, a student’s test scores correlate fairly closely to school performance. And if a student’s scores are high but grades are low, it’s not always because the student is lazy or not motivated in school. Sometimes, it has to do with bad teacher fit …
The most common magical thinking that I have seen, not only on BS forum but generally all over, is that parents believing that their children with lower standardized test and/or gpa will fare better than those studyholics because of EC and holistic process. Studyholics are a myth. Nowadays those with top scores AND gpa seldom neglect the right EC.
Thank you, ScuptorDad - what do you mean studyholics are a myth and nowadays those with top scores and gpa seldom neglect the right EC? Are you saying kids who test well, have good grades also have the right ECs (whatever right EC means)? At least in my community, parents rarely talk about how well their student is doing academically but have no hesitation in bragging about their student’s EC accomplishments and it seems true here on CC as well, among parents and students. This is one of the reasons I posted my original question …
@CLNMOM I think that @SculptorDad is saying that there are rarely students these days who only study–literally ONLY study-- without participating in any ECs and that those with top scores academically are also very accomplished in their ECs.