Importance of Name Recognition

Louisiana obviously must have known something when it renamed University of Louisiana. It had some directional universities and renamed them University of Louisiana - location. Louisiana State is the state’s flagship. :slight_smile:

But if one of a student’s choices is attending a university with a state in its name (be it Louisiana, Mississippi, or any other state) where people from outside the state/region may not be as favorably impressed with the state’s educational reputation, is it better to choose a college without the state’s name or only attend the flagship if doing so?

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College’s announce ahead of time which disciplines are being de-emphasized (employer speak for “no new faculty”). You don’t need to know ahead of time that you are going to study ethno-musicology… but going to a college where the resources are clearly moving to recreation management and allied health, and the arts and social science departments are being starved-- probably not an optimal choice, right?

I am not of the camp which says that a college is not worth attending. That depends on so many factors- life is a trade-off. And put simply, there are a bunch of jobs out there in the real world that just require a degree from an accredited college. Any degree. So sure, if you can’t get in to your state’s flagship, and none of the branch college’s are commutable, and you can’t afford to dorm- then yes, going to your local no-name college if you aren’t taking out loans to do it, is likely a rational choice.

But I also don’t romanticize the road less traveled. Some of the well known schools are well known for legitimate, academic reasons. Going to a college that does not have adequate lab facilities to study science is just a sub-optimal choice. Do some kids do it and make the best of it? Yes, every day. But to actively choose to go there- if there are affordable and attainable choices with more resources? That might not be the best decision.

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I think this is key (emphasis above min). We’ve been sold on the fact that every college degree is worth the investment. Clearly, some aren’t.

I’m getting close to retirement. I ask my friends who are also in healthcare all the time what their retirement plans are and if they’d do it again. The vast majority who are in vet med, optometry, dentistry or who are MD/DOs, say that at today’s debt levels, they wouldn’t.

I also have quite a few patients who are in professional programs. They all recognize that they will be so saddled with debt, that their careers won’t be like mine or their parents. They are doing it because it feels like a calling.

I’m from Ohio. There are a lot of fine smaller colleges in Ohio and Pennsylvania that likely no one east of the Mississippi River and south of the Mason Dixon Line has heard of.

Still, they graduate some very fine students, and are well recognized in the PA/Ohio area. There is nothing wrong with a college that is recognized regionally and no where else.

Heck…until I moved to New England, I never heard of Bates, Colby, etc.

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Otterbein, Wittenberg, Juniata… fine institutions. But I don’t think these are the type of colleges the OP has listed!

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Companies don’t really refer to colleges like that, which is pretty derogatory, imo. They may recruit more at some colleges than others, but that’s mainly based on how the graduates do on the job.

I think it makes a difference for the first few years out of school. After that, it is experience and soft skills. First thing I look for is whether the person sitting across me can do the job or not. I do however look to see where this person went to school and GPA (for recent grads) but I have never discarded someone because they went to a certain school.

How does one find the Otterbein, Wittenberg, and Juniatas of the world? Prior to reading on CC, I had never heard of any of these (and apart from hearing their names here, I still know nothing about them). Are there any equivalents south of the Mason-Dixon line? And I still come around to, how does one figure out if an institution one has never heard of is one of the fine ones, or one of the ones of a different, lower caliber?

Well I think you (or the family looking at colleges) talks to family & friends, guidance counselors, College Confidential and other websites, USNews, the Fiske Guide, Princeton Review, etc.

Are you wanting suggestions or just wondering about the process? I think it isn’t the most equitable and families with more wealth and resources are able to cast a wider net, but a good guidance counselor should be able to advise to the schools in the student’s state or region.

You aren’t alone. There’re 4,000 or so colleges in the US and most of them few have ever heard of. There’re even more banks (5,000 or so right now and more than 8,000 before the '08 financial crisis) and most of them few have ever heard of. You aren’t missing much.

I live in Palo Alto, hometown of Stanford University and highly ranked public schools for children. Thus, intellectuals move to our city, 50% of the residents have graduate or professional degrees, many students are pushed by their parents to excel in academics. And these days, legacy doesn’t mean much, most don’t attend their parents’ alma maters. Kids of Stanford professors are the exception. Or kids whose parents have donated buildings. But they still need to have decent applications. What I have noticed over the years (when there was a college list available, ended recently) is that a LARGE portion of the acceptances are D1 athletes who were recruited to these top, elite colleges. And there may be 1-2 others who just get accepted on their own, but could have been that they were doing research there, or parent pulled some strings, or they won a huge, national award.

I can tell you this: Brand name colleges mean nothing after your first job, and maybe even for your first job, depends on the major. We have many students who are losing their teen years to schoolwork and extracurriculars in preparation for the perfect college applications to elite schools. Kids are socially inept because they don’t hang out with friends enough (besides the “popular” partying crowd). They are sleep-deprived and have poor social skills.

And their parents? I no longer respect Ivy and elite degrees. It just means they are good at academics, does not lead to success (financial, which is most people’s definition of success). Many of these people are not very smart with common sense or life skills, they are only smart academically. Top 15 school graduates are overrated. Malcolm Gladwell’s book claims that the top percentage at any college is equal, no matter which school. About half the residents here are renters. With Ivy League degrees, they still cannot afford to buy a house and they make stupid decisions. My husband has worked with MIT, Harvard, other elite school grads and says they are no different that top students from elsewhere.

That said, you asked about brand names that are not Ivies. My answer to that is: choose where you want your career and attend that school because your college friends and job recruitment will be in that area.

There are oftentimes students who have gone to brand name schools such as Northwestern and other elite colleges and they come back home to CA but can’t find jobs because the networking was in their college area.

Finally, the job interview is more based upon whether the interviewer likes the person and if the interviewee is qualified. Work on those soft skills, your personality and communication skills by hanging out with people in college. Most jobs are on-the-job training, unrelated to what is taught in college.

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We were living in Florida and my daughter found U of Wyoming at a school fair. Many of the other booths had a pack 5 deep trying to talk to the rep and Wyoming had…no one. We talked to him, it was cheap, and she was sold. It wasn’t like we’d never heard of it (we’re from Colorado) and my BIL went there, but it just wasn’t on her list. She visited, didn’t like it (Jan, about 10 degrees) but it stayed on the list and when we revisited in Sept she loved it. Now she’s in grad school there (fully funded). Is she likely to get a job at the Smithsonian? Probably not but there seems to be a lot of money being tossed at her for studying next summer in Europe.

Other daughter also found her school in a strange way. When we moved to Florida I looked at where chapters of my sorority were located and there were only 3, including Florida tech. I was reading a WSJ article about Newman center dorms at schools, and Florida Tech came up again. Huh, hadn’t heard of it before and now two references to it. Then the summer of her jr year I was reading US Lax magazine and they mentioned Florida Tech was adding women’s lax. Daughter filled out a questionnaire, the coach emailed back immediately and within 2 months daughter was committed, admitted, and on her way.

I hadn’t heard of most of the schools in NC or Georgia that she ended up playing against. Some were really beautiful (Belmont Abbey, Queens, Tampa) and others were in towns so tiny that we knew immediately that they weren’t for her (Mt. Olive? it’s a pickle factory!)

If you want a big name like UNC or Clemson, those are easy to find. OP listed a number of schools that are much smaller and so I assumed that’s what they are looking for, under 10,000 and more of a liberal arts school but with business or nursing type programs too.

These schools can have very wide ranging costs too. Florida Southern is quite beautiful but the town is not. It costs under $50k. Rollins is a similar sized school, my favorite small town school (although just outside Orlando so not rural) but it costs close to $80k. Flagler much cheaper than either and in St. Augustine, but almost seems more rural than either as the town is just not that big (especially without tourists).

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Juniata came to my son’s HS college fair…in OREGON!

I already knew about them, because I’d read CTCL, but he was impressed with their presentation.

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Move to flyover country. The school counselors there know about these hidden gem colleges in their states and neighboring states.

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They are unfortunately schools that will struggle as ratings obsessed parents and students ignore institutions like these that are potentially better fits, for a bumper sticker their neighbors will recognize. I would have sent my son to Juniata, Whitman, Beloit College, or Reed in a heartbeat if he wasn’t pursuing engineering at the time.

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I appreciate everyone’s responses. This thread was started with the purpose of being a theoretical conversation. We are a LONG way off from college, but I’ve started doing research because my spouse and I planned to pay for our child’s COA at our in-state flagship, and that if our child wanted anything more expensive than that, then scholarships would need to be earned to help pay for it. Some potential issues have arisen that have made us start to question whether our child would do well at a flagship or would need someplace more intimate and supportive, and what those costs would be. Depending on what we find, we would try to set aside more money for our child’s postsecondary needs beyond what we already do. But in looking at potential colleges, it’s been hard to figure out what the quality of various schools are that I haven’t heard of. I’m reluctant to start a college search thread for someone for whom college is so far off, but I will let this thread know if I do.

Thanks again to everyone for their responses.

Look now at schools you think you might like - those on your list or otherwise. Ask where recent grads have gone in X major or field. If you like what you see, those schools are fine. If not, look elsewhere.

Almost a decade ago my youngest knew he wanted to be a Tropical Marine Biology major. He was certain. We checked around and found schools with Marine Science or Marine Bio, etc, and went to visit 4 that made our list. Then he checked with some people in the field for schools they’d recommend. Two of those 4 kept appearing on all lists, one of them very highly. It was a school we hadn’t heard of before our search, but people in his field sure had.

In the end, he quickly changed majors once there and went with something else, but it was still a good school for him, so all’s well that ends well!

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Year in and year out, roughly 80% of those surveyed say they are happy with their undergraduate experience. There’s no correlation to where they went or where the school fell on their original hierarchy. That alone should tell you something.

I would abandon any hope of rankings, particularly USNWR, unveiling any useful information for you or your student.

Read the following articles and books. You’ll know everything you need to know. Good luck!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0226721159/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/College-Solution-Everyone-Looking-School/dp/0132944677/ref=asc_df_0132944677/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241995309321&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7172502380375607700&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033109&hvtargid=pla-571747836128&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LLIIZMK/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i1

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Yes - and cities like Charlotte & Raleigh continue to grow and show up on lists of places that young people want to live and raise families. Companies in those cities are very familiar with our state’s public universities and recruit regularly from them.

Another to consider is where your kid may want to eventually settle. Do they want to be near family in a large city, or would they be okay working & living in somewhere else (possibly a small, rural town)? My older D loves her hometown city and wanted to end up here. She went to our state flagship and had no problem fining opportunities for internships & jobs. If she had gone to a small, relatively unknown college in Iowa, I think it would have been more difficult (albeit not impossible), to find her way back to a job in NC. She may have had to work for a few years in a midwestern city that recruited from the Iowa college.

D21 would also ultimately like to end up back in NC. She chose a very well-known public U in VA, where many graduates go on to jobs in DC, Richmond, Philidelphia and other northern cities (although there is still a fair amount who go south). She’s aware that she may have to hustle a bit to end up back in NC, compared to if she had gone to NC State, but who knows - she may land an internship in DC or Philadelphia and decide to live there for a few years.

Her university has a very robust alumni presence, which I think is an important thing to consider when choosing a college because it CAN get your foot in the door or get your resume to the top of the pile. It’s no coincidence that many of my older daughter’s co-workers are UNC alumni.

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There are some very good smaller private (and public) schools that don’t cost that much more than in state and could be less depending on your state. We are looking at paying around 30k per year for a private school. The three private schools D22 applied to and was accepted at all came in around that with scholarships. If D22 gets another scholarship to the school she wants to go she could get full tuition and we’d just have to pay for room and board. So I guess my advice would be set aside a little more money if you can but it doesn’t have to be $60k a year type money and continue to read and research so you’ll be informed. There are so many different schools out there and they all have different strengths and vibes. What is a good fit for one kid is not necessarily a good fit for another.

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