<p>"Lmao, I go to a crappy school with low average SAT score, have low income parents who didn't go to college, and did a lot with very little. I also have plus 2100, but yet I do not have a good shot at the Ivies...I'm asian...so I think race does play an important role."</p>
<p>You know why you don't stand much of a chance? You don't believe in your own self worth--you degrade yourself with your race. First off, nobody stands a great chance at ivies to begin with. You need to first believe in your own worth before you have a chance in hell.</p>
<p>Don't use your race as an excuse to expect a rejection.</p>
<p>You need to have passion for what you want to do in college, not for getting into a good college.</p>
<p>Here's my story. I am a white Jewish male whose father was killed in action during Gulf War II where he served as a medic with hopes of going to medical school. I was an infant at the time. We were forced to move above a dry cleaning store in Brooklyn where my mother took a job as a tailor and part time manager. She worked 12 hours a day and raised my 2 brothers and I. We had NOTHING and struggled financially.</p>
<p>I graduated # 7 in a class of over 500. Got an IB diploma and had SAT's of 1460 (old test). My GPA weighted was 4.6. I worked after school from my soph thru sr years so I did not have alot of EC's. I was however, editor of my school newspaper. I was rejected from my top three choices ... Harvard among them, and was accepted at Rice University with a full scholarship.</p>
<p>My HS is about 15% black. Five black students applied to Harvard. Three were accepted. None were above a 4.0 GPA or had SAT's above 1300. Two were from upper income families. One the daughter of the treasurer of Pepsico. The other the son of an affluent psychologist. Both recieved affirmative action preferences and FULL financial packages from the Harvard I was rejected from. Juxtaposition that against my background and see how unfair racial preferences are.</p>
<p>I must say that is terrible, but your only focusing on your stats and not essays, interview, and the rest of the black candidates, who, if they we're as crappy as they sound, do not deserve to go.</p>
<p>BTW, I'm going to Rice this year. What college are you in?</p>
<p>metoo, that's a very sad story and I'm sorry but the thing is, a few decades ago the opposite would've happened. The highly qualified black students would've been rejected and the white student with sub-par stats would've gotten in, based on the color of his skin. That why A.A. exists. It's not so much of an attempt to even the odds as it is to say "we're sorry".</p>
<p>But really, we're just starting another A.A. debate that's going to get this thread closed.</p>
<p>Engineering. My point is that my experience is the RULE ... not the acception. An affluent minority such as the son of a Jesse Jackson or any other URM professional will get all kinds of racial preferences without any substantial achievement .... but the brillaint son of an Appalachian coal miner or daughter of a NYC bus driver who only wants to judged by his/her merits would get no add'l consideration.... nor should they. If one wants to level the playing field, it should be done based on socio-economics .... not ethnicity or skin pigmentation.</p>
<p>That's exactly what I had said when I was competing in nationals for the "We the People" thing this past month. My topic dealt with invidual right from the middle ages to present and stuff, but somehow it went to race/affirmative action and that is the point I brought up.</p>
<p>Brandy, you make my point. You state "a few decades ago" the reverse would have happened. The fact is that AA has been the rule since 1968 After almost 40 years we are on our third generation of affirmative action. When does it stop? Sometimes ethnic groups are NOT equal in everything. And we simply need to acknowledge that, judge everyone as an individual, and move on. Again almost 40 years of AA and the gap of educational achievement still exists. Other groups, especially the Jews faced comparable educational barriers ... so they simply out worked and out performed everyone. No one offered my grandfather AA ... so he worked his way thru City College. Hecouldn't get a job in a big corp, so he started his own business. Your comment that "a few decades ago"the reverse would have happened is not relevant. 3 generations of preferences have passed us by. Reverse dicrimination is now the rule. When does it end?</p>
<p>metoo, My "a few decades ago" comment was meant to show why A.A. exists. Yes it's been almost 40 years since A.A. was started but the opposite was happening for over 100 years before that. Ethnic groups CAN and should be equal in everything, they just need the chance. I think that A.A. should stay in place until all the other races "catch up" to the whites because really, isn't that what our goal should be? Instead of trying to compete with each other, we should welcome the chance for equalilty. Then our nation as a whole can prosper instead of just a certain percentage.</p>
<p>Wow Brandyn, we sure have different values. It NEVER entered my mind that because my grandfather was discriminated against, or my relatives died in the holocaust, that I should not live up to my potential. And most importantly, I think of myself as an individual, not a member of a group. I couldn't care less if Harvard was 99% black and .00001% jewish. As long as the selection was based on objective merit and not skin color. And that goes for all parts of life. Are you saying that we should discriminate against higher achieving ethnicities and for lower achieving ethnicities perpetually in order to maintain an ethnic "equilibrium"? Should we do that in basketball? track? Should we perpetually lower our standards in all areas in order to keep things "numerically" equal between the races?</p>
<p>metoo, you're getting ahead of yourself. There's no need to worry about maintaining an equilibrium because we haven't reached it yet. But assuming that we do reach it one day, I'm all for getting rid of A.A. then. Then selection should be based only on objective merit as you said(or perhaps that and income). Whatever happens after that is fine with me. If minorities continue to not perform as well and we revert back to the way things are today, so be it. As long as nobody had an advantage to begin with I'm ok with that. Basically what I'm saying is that I completely believe in your idea for admissions but it just won't be as fair as you think it will be right now.</p>
<p>Brandyn..... to think that all ethnic groups will naturally gravitate to equality is ridiculous. To think that we should rig the system so that your group is guaranteed to reach the level of any other group is equally ridiculous and counterproductive. What happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? If one takes our black society as an example... there are many tangible reasons why that particular group is responsible for their OWN underachievement and here are SOME of the things they need to change to reach "equality". And the white boogeyman cannot do it for them:</p>
<br>
<p>72% illigitimacy rate</p>
<p>86% single parent household</p>
<p>76% of children receive NO support from father</p>
<p>36% of males enter the criminal justice system by age 30</p>
<p>74% have NEVER read a book by their HS years</p>
<p>62% remain functionally illiterate at age 18</p>
<p>67% are sexually active before age 14</p>
<p>leaders such as Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, etc..</p>
<br>
<p>See, Brandyn ... GROUP underachievement can best be traced to social pathology and lack of values. Not discrimination. All people are NOT equal... accept under the law and in the eyes of God. And all group cultures are NOT equal. In fact some are VASTLY inferior. And that is why they cannot reach the status of other groups... without race norming, special preferences, affirmative action etc...</p>
<p>"Why We Fail" BY Thomas Sowell, Aug 3 , 2002 ... as written for the Rand Institute ... Statistics from Census Bureau, Dept of Labor, and Justice Department Report to The President, 1999.</p>
<p>Brandyn .... anybody can find excuses for their own failure... and in this case their group's failures. What you are refusing to do is look to yourself or your group for the real reasons ... because it is painful. This isn't a debating contest. The facts are the facts. The reasons are the reasons. You want group equality? </p>
<ol>
<li>Don't have kids you can't support.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>2.Support the kids you have. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Read. </p></li>
<li><p>Keep your fly zipped or at least be responsible enough to use birth control. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>5.Get married. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Have kids with the one you marry and no one else. </p></li>
<li><p>Respect the law. </p></li>
<li><p>And find leaders who don't whine and make excuses.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>If you want results comparable to whites and Asians ... start here. No society should guarantee equal outcome ... just opportunity. Its up to you what you do with it.</p>
<p>Wow... metoo I dont know if you realize it but you said some extremely racist comments. And I have no clue where you got that data but it looks unrealistic to me.</p>
<p>"See, Brandyn ... GROUP underachievement can best be traced to social pathology and lack of values. Not discrimination. All people are NOT equal... accept under the law and in the eyes of God. And all group cultures are NOT equal. In fact some are VASTLY inferior. And that is why they cannot reach the status of other groups... without race norming, special preferences, affirmative action etc...</p>
<p>You are basically saying that the white race is superior to all others? What you fail to realize is that untill the 1970's many of these minority groups where treated as second class citizens. Even after these laws where passed to give them "equality" they where still looked down apon. If you think that a group of people can rebound in just a few generations after being repressed for so many years you are mistaken. </p>
<p>I completely agree with BrandynQ, AA needs to stay in place untill all races are on the same footing. Just take a look at the poverty levels of different races and tell me if everything is all right.</p>