<p>Well metoo, you may want to review your sources because your numbers are very wrong. </p>
<p>For example: according to the March 2004 CPS conducted by the Census Bereau, 46.5% of black households are married couple families. Which means that the first three stats you gave are impossible. The CPS also states that 44.6% have at least an associates degree. So that illiteracy stat is also wrong.</p>
<p>I don't feel like going through every single one but I think it's clear that you're making things up. Which brings me to my next question: who are you? In this thread you say you're " a white Jewish male whose father was killed in action during Gulf War II where he served as a medic with hopes of going to medical school" but in another you say you're "a female soccer player that has played on olympic developement teams from the state level thru to my age group's National Team." Which one is it? Or are you neither?</p>
<p>I posted my last reply even before I saw his last post. It is obvious that he has something against african americans. I feel sorry for him actually, somone does not learn the stereotypes that he used. He had to of grown up with his parents, or somone else close to him telling him these things. It is sad when you see children like metoo spewing off comments like these. It just shows that discrimination is not over and it lives through the generations. Even though it may not be obvious, as long as people hold the same opinions as metoo everyone is not "equal".</p>
<p>It hasn't even been 50 years (1957) since Elizabeth Eckford and the other 8 Af-Am students were escorted onto the Little Rock Central High School campus (we couldn't even drink from the same water fountain or use the same restroom facilities). Or how about James Meredith who was the first Af-Am student at the University of Mississippi (1962)? My own mother experienced segregration and integration as a child (she was bussed to an elementary school quite far from her home)</p>
<p>Under Represented Minority. Typically refers to African-Americans, Hispanic, and Native Americans. Asian-Americans are usually "over"-represented at top schools, therefore don't usually qualify as URM at such institutions.</p>
<p>Affirmative action still exists, but the legal parameters are not as broad as some would believe. For example, universities can not use quotas or award bonus points to applicants from urms. Policies like these have been declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. What universities can do, however, based upon two U.S. Supreme Court rulings issued in December 2003 (Grutter v. Bollinger, Gratz v. Bollinger), is to use race as one of several factors in evaluating a candidate's application for admission. In Gratz, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, writing for the majority, said that universities have "a compelling interest in obtaining the educational benefits that flow from a diverse student body".</p>
<p>I'm sorry for a candidate who feels wronged by the application and admission process, but there are never any guarantees of admission. How often on these boards do we hear about the high school senior with near perfect SAT scores, lots of great ECs and a bunch of rejection letters? Universities are looking for the right mix of students on their campuses, not just because it may be the right thing to do, but because different viewpoints and backgrounds represented in classroom discussion and life in general allow students to learn in ways not adequately taught by books.</p>
<p>MeToo's post may sound racist, but the underlying truth is unfortunately correct. Even if his stats are off, in each category he lists, blacks and other URM's have a much higher pathology than other groups. And I do agree that THAT is the problem. Not past discrimination etc. </p>
<p>It amuses me how I hear young minorities say that "it wasn't until 1950, or Brown vs Board of Ed, or 1970" blah blah blah. The fact is that african american students applying to college today have known NOTHING but race preferences, lowered standards, race norming, and every admissions advantage known to man. We can bodily stuff most of them into seats Harvard, Yale etc .... but we can't make them do their homework, read, or perform. And the fact is that a second generation of affirmative action students are underperforming their peers with no end in sight. Take a look at AA law students, med students ... etc... and see how they perform vs their peers in Bar passage, Med Boards etc.</p>
<p>No other group has had the advantages of todays URM's. No matter what society does to boost them up, as a group they fail to perform intellectually at the level of their peers from other groups. . Racist? Maybe. Honest? Yes. When will the tired excuses end.</p>
<p>"It hasn't even been 50 years (1957) since Elizabeth Eckford and the other 8 Af-Am students were escorted onto the Little Rock Central High School campus (we couldn't even drink from the same water fountain or use the same restroom facilities). Or how about James Meredith who was the first Af-Am student at the University of Mississippi (1962)? My own mother experienced segregration and integration as a child (she was bussed to an elementary school quite far from her home"</p>
<p>Did you experience any of this ? If the answer is no, then what are you complaining about? Do you think it is fair to reward people just because they are the same race as people that suffered 50 years ago?</p>
<p>You have to look at the effect. By not giving the blacks an education, their children were, in many cases, not motivated or supported by their parents to get an education as well; also, their income was also greatly lower so their children were also disadvantaged. The few of the disadvantaged children that managed to excel were better off and could have successful children, but many of them remained poor.</p>
<p>I don't think something like that can just get fixed immediately.</p>
<p>Their parents did, however get an education, unless the parents went to high school before 1964, which would make today's senior's parents over 60 years old, when in reality the parents of most seniors are between 45 and 50.</p>
<p>Also, many non-urms have parents that did not get a good education, yet they dont get the same advantages as african americans, hispanics, or native americans</p>
<p>
[quote]
Being black is the same as adding 100 points to EACH section of the SAT and at LEAST a half of a point to your GPA. It trumps any EC. It isn't PC to say it, but it is the truth in almost ALL elite private institutions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So that means I have a 2500 SAT and a 4.1 unweighted? Killer. </p>
<p>. . . . </p>
<p>Just sarcasm. URM is a very noticable boost, but it's sometimes exaggerated. Keep in mind that the lower 25% at many top schools is around the high 600s, meaning hooked students with around 2000 actually get accepted.</p>
<p>The URMs would have a much stronger position if there was no such thing as OVERrepresented minorities. In other words, the fact that all manner of South and East Asians (with ancestors from India, Pakistan, China, Vietnam, Japan, etc.) and all sorts of Middle Easterners (Jews, Arabs, Iranians) are succeeding at the top universities in vast numbers even though there are what amounts to quotas to keep their numbers LOW, blows the URM position out of the water. URMs need to look at the ORMs and either emulate their efforts or stop the bi+ching.</p>
<p>You fail to realize what Sephiroth226 was trying to say. Yes thier parents may have goten an education but that did not change their position in society. They where still living in the poorer areas, still attending the subpar schools, still being discriminated. You expect that these parents would have the money to attend college to better themselves, raise a family, and jump to the same standing as whites after only 1 generation? Sure these students may not have directly felt the rampant racism, but they are still effected by the aftermath. </p>
<p>I cannot believe how many of you are actually even considering that these minority groups do not have the same intellectual capacity as whites. That is a extremely racist comment that i wouldent expect out of anyone heading to college. I dont even know where somone would get ideas like that. That is the same ideas shared by groups such as White Supremacist.</p>
<p>If you think that AA is doing nothing to help correct the wrongdoings of the past you are wrong. Just go look at the data... The poverty level for the different minority groups is droping. Look at Native Americans for example: 1990 census 31.6% leaving below poverty 2000 census is around 25%.</p>
<p>I don't know about you, but I would have some faith for the people on the admission committees. After all, the majority of people on this forum are HS students who have never been involved with the admissions process for other people. I don't go by stories...aka I know a black kid who got into Harvard with a 1200/1600. People with those stories focus too much on the score and not on the whole package presented to the institution. I would hope schools do not merely judge an individual's potential based on one number.</p>
<p>Life isn't fair and neither is the admissions process. Some people are born with privilege in life from the day they are born while others are extremely disadvantaged. No one seems to care about these disparities until college application time. What about disparities in secondary education in this country...focus on that and I would understand some people's perspectives. People seem to focus on this one period of time when they feel they are personally threatened...seems more self-serving than anything. </p>
<p>Another thing I don't understand is when people complain about URMs taking someone else's spot...newsflash...a college spot does not belong to anyone...a college/university invites someone to an institution of learning. I never understood why someone would be complaining about something that never even belonged to them in the first place. That and the fact that more than likely you lost your spot to a white person...:rolleyes:</p>
<p>I am not going to lie, URM status gives you an edge, but so do connections, legacy status, athletic ability, socioeconomic status, gender, location, etc. They truly don't have anything to do with the admissions process...but no complaints there. Still, I don't hear anyone saying someone got into a school because they came from Wyoming or that they are female.</p>
<p>I do realize there are flaws in the system; it isn't perfect. It is like putting a tiny band aid on an infected wound. It alleviates some problems, but does not get to the heart of the problem. I'm all for the banishment of AA when everyone has an equal chance at opportunity and achievement in secondary school...</p>
<p>"Yes thier parents may have goten an education but that did not change their position in society. They where still living in the poorer areas, still attending the subpar schools, still being discriminated. You expect that these parents would have the money to attend college to better themselves, raise a family, and jump to the same standing as whites after only 1 generation? Sure these students may not have directly felt the rampant , but they are still effected by the aftermath. "</p>
<p>So now only black people are living in poor areas? What about the white and asian people attending subpar schools?</p>
<p>Again you fail to realize i am not talking about individual cases i am speaking as groups as a whole. There is obviously much more black people living in poverty then white people. About 23% compared to 8%, that is about 3 black people for ever white person. So unless the government decides to revamp their educational system and put the best schools in the area that need them the most instead of the opposite, minorities will always be disadvantaged.</p>
<p>I have to agree with Homer. Jews, Asians (specifically Vietnamese) and almost every other ethnic group succeeded in this country within one generation of landing on these shores... and they faced financial, social, and educational hardships todays URM's could not even imagine. And they did it without affirmative action, preferences, race norming, head start, second language programs, and a myriad of welfare programs that were unheard of.</p>
<p>Do away with AA and instead take into account the student's economic status. Thats primarily the purpose of AA anyways, that minorities do not have the resources that can help them succeed, so they get a little <em>boost</em>. I don't understand why they take RACE into account instead of ECONOMIC STATUS. </p>
<p>A rich African American has the same oppurtunities aS a rich Jewish kid has. Why should the African American get the benefit?</p>