<p>Not sure if this is the right forum completly, but I have a few questions regarding undergraduate school.</p>
<ol>
<li>Comparatively to Graduate school, how much of an impact does undergraduate school have on future jobs? For ex, is a Harvard-Harvard (Undergraduate-Graduate) more likely to be chosen over a (Duke-Harvard)</li>
<li>How important is Undergraduate school to graduate school admission? (Prestige wise)</li>
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<p>Thanks.</p>
<ol>
<li>Difference is insignificant. Both went to Harvard for graduate school. </li>
<li>GPA matters more, though the name of the school may play a small part.</li>
</ol>
<ol>
<li> Undergrad is mostly irrelevant to job if you go to grad school.</li>
<li> Can be important, but not because of prestige; rather because of what you learn (re your resulting GPA and GRE/etc scores).</li>
</ol>
<p>Interesting- I’m beginning to wonder if I go to grad school, how important it really is to go to a prestigious school for undergraduate degree. If it isn’t important, then why are so many people stressing out getting into the best college? They should just take it easy and enjoy it… seeing as it really doesn’t make that much of a difference, or enough of a difference between their state school/best fit and an Ivy (if they want to go to grad school).</p>
<p>Whether it’s the student or the parents, a lot of the thirst for achievement and prestige stems from insecurity and an urge to compensate for things people think are flaws. </p>
<p>Be aware that it’s tough to get in the very top grad schools, so there really isn’t a good time to slack off.</p>
<p>There is no guaranty that one will definitely go to grad school after college. Even less guaranty that one will end up at a top grad program There are far too many moving parts in life that can detour one’s plan. Hence the thinking that it’s better to attend a school that will give youthe best education and the best chance for entering the job market and starting a career. And that usually means a top flagship state school or prestigious school with strong network and recruitment record.</p>
<p>It depends on what “graduate school” you are talking about. It can make a big difference in some fields and little or none at all in others.</p>
<ol>
<li>It’s far more important to get a high GPA than the prestige of the school for grad school admissions.
But for jobs, the picture is a little mirkier. Prestigious schools give you a leg up on the recruitment and network. For instance, a lot of the top schools has top firms in various fields conducting on-campus recruitment. But you would still have to be a top candidate as compared to your peers from your school to get pass the different interview stages and get hired eventually. So going to a top school does not guarantee you a job, You still have to do well, possibly in a more competitive environment.
Whereas in a less prestige school, you competition is easier. Therefore, you will have a better chance to get a good GPA. But you may have to make a cold call to the firms for job application. With my experience, the firms usually wait til they have tried their luck with their target schools before they would consider your application.
So my advice is if you have confidence you can compete, go to the best school you can. If not, play it safe and go for the grades. That leaves you a back-up route of grad schools.
I gave the same advice to my sons.</li>
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<p>What one of the posters said was actually my very same inspiration. I have been working hard all of High School and have gotten a 4.5, sometimes I wonder why, when Undergraduate school is so insignificant. Can anyone help me out here? Show me the meaning in Undergraduate school so I don’t feel like I wasted time?</p>
<p>sottovoce, I hope my posts #6 and #8 help.</p>
<ol>
<li>Employers typically look most at one’s final degree, unless if the candidate is applying for a totally unrelated job, in which case, they will probably look at the candidate’s ability to do the job at hand. So if one has a graduate degree, employers will typically not dwell too much on one’s undergraduate degree.</li>
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<p>2) Although the prestige of an undergraduate institution is not the most important factor in graduate school admissions, it can directly or indirectly influence the outcome of a candidate’s application. Before discussing the issue of “prestige”, I should make it clear that all of the nation’s top 50 colleges and universities are “prestigious”. That includes the top 25 or so private research universities, the top 20 or so LACs and the top 5 or 10 Public universities. Of course, Harvard and MIT are more prestigious than schools ranked at the bottom of those 50 or so colleges and universities, but the difference at that level is truly negligible.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>In the case of top law school admissions, I believe that prestige of undergraduate institution matters. This said, most law school admissions committees will probably treat applicants from any of the top 40 or 50 universities and colleges the same way and will not give such applicants that much of a leg up on applicants from other recognized (top 200 universities and colleges) institution.</p></li>
<li><p>In the case of top MBA programs, prestige undergraduate institution is not that important, but work experience is. And since prestige of undergraduate institution can help one land a good job at a good company, I would say attending a prestigious undergraduate institution can indirectly enhance one’s chances with top MBA programs.</p></li>
<li><p>In the case of Medical school and most PhD programs, prestige of undergraduate institution matters very little. As long as one attended one of the top 200 universities or colleges for one’s undergraduate studies, what will matter most are the statement of purpose, GPA and GRE/MCAT.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>If you want to attend graduate school, then the graduate school will have more impact on your employment opportunities. When you apply to graduate school, the adcom will look at the rigor of the curriculum at your school to assess your academic standing (this is true for medical school as well; a top medical school interviewer told me this). It helps if you get a high GPA from a difficult curriculum (difficult in terms of curve due to the student quality, or difficult due to professor), but adcoms will also aknowledge a lower GPA if it came from a more difficult curriculum than another school. </p>
<p>An example from my experience: Statistics show that a Washington University in St. Louis undergradute who has a 3.0 and a 30 on the MCAT has a 66% chance of getting into medical school. The 3.0 GPA is waaaay lower than the mean for accepted students. So the rigor of the undergrad is taken into account. People say it doesn’t matter what undergrad you go to, and that is both true and not true. It doesn’t matter about the NAME/ prestige of the school, but what matters is the difficulty of the curriculum at the school. A lot of times, a highly ranked undergrad usually has a difficult curriculum, especially since students there are of high-caliber, the professors have to write harder exams ,and the curves in the classes are tougher.</p>
<p>“Show me the meaning in Undergraduate school so I don’t feel like I wasted time?”</p>
<p>To gain you admittance to the grad school of your choice.</p>
<p>
I vehemently disagree. In the case of graduate studies, where one did one’s undergrad can be tremendously important for the more competitive fields.</p>
<p>Setting prestige aside, there are reasons for this. Top colleges are more likely to have good research opportunities and great funding for undergraduate research. Furthermore, not all letters of recommendation are created equal. A good letter from a Big Name counts for more than a good letter from Podunk U Professor, and the Big Names are more likely to be teaching at top colleges.</p>
<p>Honestly, it makes me laugh every time I read the “Oh, I’ll just go to Harvard for graduate school” comments. Those people have absolutely no idea how difficult it is to get admitted at the graduate level; it’s quite probable that schools they’d scorn at the undergraduate level would reject them without a glance at the graduate level.</p>
<p>Here’s a commonly quoted statement on the Grad Cafe:
</p>
<ol>
<li>Well, generally speaking your undergraduate institution doesn’t matter at all, but you’ll actually have to specify what kind of grad school. In some fields, it will make a difference. </li>
</ol>
<p>If by grad school you mean a PhD with the goal of entering an academic career, then your UG institution hardly matters at all. If you going to a teaching-oriented LAC, it may help you marginally in applying or jobs at those schools down the line, but I want to emphasize the marginally. Other than that Harvard-Harvard vs. Southeastern State Tech-Harvard makes no difference.</p>
<p>For med school/dental school, your UG will not matter, but for other professional programs there will be an impact. With law, obviously your law school is much more important than your UG institution, but law is a prestige-driven field, so having the right undergraduate school name will make a marginal difference (if and only if all else is equal). You should also keep in mind that more prestigious schools also come with better alumni networks, which you may find helpful. Again, though, the differences are small.</p>
<p>The two areas that you really will find that your undergraduate education will make a difference are business and public policy. Traditionally, people who go into MBA or MPA/MPP programs spend a few years in the workforce before going on to graduate school. A “better” UG institution will translate to a better job in those intervening years, and that will often help to set the trajectory for your career. Also, the networking potential that comes from a Harvard, Yale, or Princeton degree will help you out more in those fields.</p>
<p>In short, it depends on the field, but in all cases the graduate institution will be significantly more important.</p>
<ol>
<li>Not very. Doing well GPA-wise, impressing your professors, and doing well on the appropriate test (GRE, MCAT, LSAT) are much more significant than the name (for professional schools more than PhD programs though). Harvard v. Duke won’t make a difference. Now, if you go to a school that is known for low standards, that can really hurt, but I’m talking about something like going to Bob Jones and then trying to apply to Med School. Otherwise, the difference is small. Of course, one factor that often does matter in PhD admissions is who writes your letters. It means a whole lot more to have a letter from leading scholar X at Harvard saying “John Doe is the best student I have ever had” than to have exactly the same letter from No Name scholar Y at a less prestigious university.</li>
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<p>The OP asks the wrong question. Your undergrad school is extremely important for your education. You go to college to be educated. Companies hire smart people who are educated and can think, communicate, both written and verbal. The job is the by-product of education.</p>
<p>If your focus is on money dont even bother to go to college, save the money and buy a Mcdonalds franchise.</p>
<p>I vehemently disagree. In the case of graduate studies, where one did one’s undergrad can be tremendously important for the more competitive fields.</p>
<p>Only in the sense that the big name schools are big name for a reason, and you’re more likely to get cutting-edge research experience at top liberal arts colleges and universities than you are elsewhere. But all other things being equal, being from Harvard won’t give you an extreme leg over someone from Florida State. And if the Florida State one has a better overall package, they’re in.</p>
<p>But the caveat comes with the fact that while the name is not important, some schools just have better resources for research and teaching and will equip you with the tools you need because they expect their students to go to graduate school. At R1 universities and top liberal arts colleges professors are expected to do research and involve undergraduates (especially in SLACs). So you can go to Harvard or Michigan or Florida State, or Swarthmore or Vassar or Muhlenberg, and work with professors on research in your interest area and get the kind of experience you need to go to graduate school. That kind of experience is probably less found at Ocala State or Clayton State or any other Generic Regional/Local University because the professors aren’t as much expected to do research and there are fewer resources for it anyway - most of the programs are focused on getting graduates into careers/jobs because that’s what most of the students are interested in.</p>
<p>So no, the name on your application doesn’t really matter (much) but the school <em>does</em> matter because that’s going to shape the way you think. And that’s why it’s important to work hard and go to a good/great/excellent college or university even if you plan on going to professional or graduate school. (Although I don’t advocate the idea that if you’re worried about money you shouldn’t bother - it’s not a good idea to borrow thousands and thousands of dollars for your undergraduate degree because you’ll be under crushing debt for the rest of your life, but people should be willing to borrow some.)</p>
<p>Undergrad school matters more for medical and law school admissions, and somewhat for business school, but it really doesn’t matter for PhD/MA admissions in academic fields. Other schools where UG may matter are like someone mentioned public policy or IR programs.</p>
<p>“Undergrad school matters more for medical and law school admissions, and somewhat for business school, but it really doesn’t matter for PhD/MA admissions in academic fields.”</p>
<p>I think the last part is wrong about PhD admissions. The curriculum of the undergrad school can make a huge difference in PhD admissions. Schools requiring formal research by their undergrads provide training that PhD programs value highly.</p>
<p>Warblersrule, I quickly checked Princeton’s 58 graduate student profiles and here’s what I found:</p>
<p>1) Northern Arizona University
2) Australian National University/University of Canterbury
3) Thomas Aquinas College
4) University of Houston
5) Brigham Young University
6) Houghton College
7) Arizona state University
8) University of Nebraska (again!)
9) North Carolina State University
10) Universidad Nacional Aut</p>
<p>And I also took the liberty of checking out Caltech’s Physics graduate student profiles. 30% attended non top 25 Private research, top 15 LAC or top 10 Publics. Another 30% attended international universities.</p>
<p>[Caltech</a> Physics Grad Students](<a href=“http://www.pma.caltech.edu/GSR/gradclasslist.html]Caltech”>http://www.pma.caltech.edu/GSR/gradclasslist.html)</p>