In love, but not completely sure

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
41

<p>Fascinating thread! I have a son who has been deliberating about applying ED to Williams, and this thread has discussed so many intangible issues that he's tried to clarify for himself. He is an athlete and that's one reason he's interested in the school, but he's wondered if athletics wasn't too pervasive an influence in terms of the school's overall personality, as well as too many rich kids. </p>

<p>He loves the fact that it's in the boonies, so that's not a problem though. It's a funny place. We did find it had a slightly cold vibe when we visited (on a warm sunny day), but sometimes it's just the people you happen to run across on those quick visits; staff, tour guide, just a few random students, so he's tried not to form an opinion based on too little knowledge.</p>

<p>Anyway, I think our leaning at this moment to not apply has come more from financial concerns, so the more intangible qualities are moot for now... still, has been a very interesting thread! And, by the way, I agree that the strident supporter of the school is having an adverse effect on our general impressions of the place. Probably a good thing, nceph, like you said for driving off the competition. lol. (Good luck to your student!)</p>

42

<p>Moneydad, I really don't wish to get sucked in to all the hyperbole spinning on theis site, but please note that while Williams sports participation is certainly high on campus, it's not much different from the other NESCAC schools. Williams has 34% at the varsity level--Colby is 33%, Amherst 32% and Middlebury 28%. Even Swarthmore (a non NESCAC and admittedly non-jock school has 28%).
I'm not sure why everyone seems to insinuate that having dedicated successful athletes on campus is a bad thing, especially if they are also very academically qualified--and this comes from someone who personally never played organized sports while in school. (And by the way, the average SAT of the Williams football team 2 years ago was 1400). Look, Williams is not a perfect school, and it is not "better" than every other school. Each school has its good and bad qualities. We've had a great experience with our 2 kids there, although child #3 has her sights elsewhere. I think negative comments, however reflect poorly not on the school but on the contributor. Please everyone lighten up.</p>

43

<p>"I'm not sure why everyone seems to insinuate that having dedicated successful athletes on campus is a bad thing,.."</p>

<p>It's not a bad thing per se, especially for those of like minds. I don't think anyone on this thread said it was bad. But some people don't like a campus culture permeated/oriented that way, if they are not of like minds. Or are concerned about it, at least. This was the OPs express concern in post #1, it was an issue of the alum in post #26, it was an issue for both my daughters, and it was an issue for the daughter of the alum in post #36, last paragraph. In our case, my kids simply don't get along with the athletes they've met over the years, and would rather not have these people be half of the school population, thereby curtailing by half, in their minds, their probable friends or positive interrelationships. Call it a prejudice, if you will, borne out of their particular experiences. I'm not justifying it, but that's their view, so they want to know about it. Just like the OP did.</p>

<p>Other people less prejudiced than my kids could just be concerned about feeling left out. Like the alum in post #26.</p>

<p>Anyway, call it a feature of a school, not intrinsically positive or negative except as its perceived by each individual.</p>

<p>Obviously your perspective is that its if anything a positive. That's a valuable, constructive observation for all to read.</p>

44

<p>Let me mention about the analogy of a cat and a lion. I just wanted to respond to MBK's post #22, especially to this part: "....... you're not going to go on a rant about Columbia being sub par with Williams are you? That would just be comical and show your ignorance......"</p>

45

<p>Windy, either you are having a fantastic time duping us all into thinking you're serious OR you should perhaps stop and take a look at what you're doing---which is engaging completely misunderstanding the questions asked by the original poster, completely misunderstanding comments made comparing Williams to Barnard and in general making irrational comments. I sincerely hope you are just making a ridiculous joke. Otherwise, I hope your anger and hostility does not translate to your actual life, because you are apparently getting offended by insinuations that don't even exist, and that doesn't make for a very peaceful existence. Please let us know NOW if you are actually serious. Thank you.</p>

46

<p>"have a perfectly reasonable basis to be making inquiries regarding these issues" ... "you would rip OP for asking about it"</p>

<p>monydad: Never did I say, or suggest, that the OP has no right to ask questions. Neither did I "rip" her, or anyone else commenting here, for that matter.</p>

<p>It does seem to me, though, that a potential applicant who relies on the opinions of anonymous posters -- biased as they may be -- will need more than a little luck to determine which school may provide the best fit.</p>

<p>And the ad hominems on this thread have become rather excessive -- and more than a little unseemly -- whether from those whose children fit well at Williams or from those who dislike Williams, for whatever reasons and based on whatever agendas. It would reflect better on all if the posters here, regular and just "visiting," were to act like the mature role models your children would like you to be.</p>

47

<p>"It does seem to me, though, that a potential applicant who relies on the opinions of anonymous posters -- biased as they may be -- will need more than a little luck to determine which school may provide the best fit."</p>

<p>That may be true, but you've just neutered this entire website.</p>

<p>That's all one gets here, is opinions of anonymous posters. YOU are an anomymous poster. Should everyone then dismiss your comments? </p>

<p>People certainly seem interested in these comments though, the site does a pretty good posting volume.</p>

<p>Hopefully they supplement these opinions with opinions of people who they don't personally know that are written in guide books. And opinions of particular individuals, who they don't personally know, that they happen to meet on site visits. And whatever other imperfect information they happen to find. And then weight these all based on perceived credibility.</p>

<p>Certainly judgement is involved.</p>

<p>"Never did I say, or suggest, that the OP has no right to ask questions. Neither did I "rip" her.."</p>

<p>ok, who said you did. someone else did though.</p>

<p>"..or anyone else commenting here, for that matter."</p>

<p>Well now that's not true you just ripped me, rather evidently in the last paragraph of your post.</p>

<p>Sorry but I do not like people ripping posters such as mythmom stating legitimately-held opinions, or innocent potential applicants legitimately seeking input. I believe I have demonstrated that the concerns of the OP , whether correct or not, were hardly frivolous, even among "the faithful".</p>

48

<p>Alright. Well, I just looked back at this thing, and I think I need to clarify/ defend myself, especially to the attacks of "windy." Who on earth are you to attack me like that? I don't know you, you have no idea who I am, so don't vent your hostility about whatever's messed up in your mind/life on me, a 17 year old, nice, curious girl. </p>

<p>I NEVER said that it was a bad thing that there were a lot of athletes on campus. Jesus. I'm going through the stress of college searching, trying to find my perfect place, and since I'm really not the jocky type, I didn't want to feel out of place at an institution where everyone is. No need to be so freaking defensive. In no way did I even insinuate that a lot of jocks would mean a less intelligent student body. </p>

<p>Furthermore, I never asked if there were intellectual discussions at Williams. I merely stated that I liked them. I'm not such an idiot that I don't think Williams has them.</p>

<p>I am really appalled that anyone would spend their time being such a jerk. Next time, if you don't have anything helpful to say, other than to rip apart an overwhelmed and tentative applicant JUST TRYING TO MAKE HER DECISION A LITTLE EASIER, then don't say anything. Not to mention a mother, just trying to help. Geez.</p>

<p>But many thanks to all of you who gave me some great insight and info, and those who stuck up for me a little bit. : ) I especially appreciated your words, monydad.</p>

<p>This was my first ever internet discussion board experience. I'm not sure if I will do it again, as what I thought was an innocent, friendly request turned into some nuts feud.</p>

49

<p>"people who they don't personally know" ... "particular individuals, who they don't personally know"</p>

<p>How about people they personally know and trust -- as well as their own personal opinions formed from their own (hopefully first-hand) research? </p>

<p>"you just ripped me"</p>

<p>And of course I must defer to your "authority," since you've posted thousands of times and are therefore so "credibly" certain of my intent. (I'm just "stating legitimately-held opinions.")</p>

<p>I agree with an earlier poster - it might be best for those posting here to lighten up a bit.</p>

50

<p>kharoe...If I offended you in any way I sincerely beg your forgiveness. I am all too aware of how trying this time is and did not mean to cause any distress. What I was attempting to convey is what an exceptional school Williams is and how astonishingly difficult it is to get into. Having been invited with my child to meetings at Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Amherst, and Williams this past fall I had the first hand opportunity to see the tremendous amount of thought and effort the admissions staffs put into the application process as they build the communities for their schools. They take this very very seriously and conduct themselves with intense professionalism. You are talking about schools that are forced to turn down thousands and thousands of applicants with academic credentials in the top one tenth of one percent. Yale has made the comment that they could replace their accepted list with their waiting list and not have lowered their standards at all. According to Prestige magazine Williams is one of the ten best colleges in the nation, the Wall Street Journal study ranked it only behind HYPS in feeder schools to the nations best grad schools, perennial #1 in US News, the Dean of Harvard was quoted as saying with Harvard’s resources they could be both Harvard and Williams as it relates to the quality of undergraduate education. You only get one shot at early decision and I was in a clumsy way trying to caution you to give it your very best effort. At all of the schools I mentioned they stressed in no uncertain terms, if you apply early you need to need to convince them that you are committed completely. You indicated that you might not get in if you did not apply early and in that my child went though that process and was accepted early I was trying to help you understand the process. As you know the odds are slim particularly if you don't bring them that something unique and special that they are looking for in the early decision round. Best of luck and once again I am sorry. You were not the target of my negative comments. Maybe we parents ought to just shut up.</p>

51

<p>Oh man. </p>

<p>I read this thread and just wanted to cry. Why would anyone want to come to Williams after reading a thread like this? And particularly, why would the original poster? I read other boards of NESCACs and Ivies and the like and I never see them degenerating into this sort of mess. </p>

<p>It used to be that it was the Williams alumni who were the cause of the problem. Now the parents have started up.</p>

<p>OP, send a private message asking your questions to some of the STUDENTS who have identified themselves on this board. And I'm sad that this happened to you. Williams is a great place. Don't let a misguided poster turn you away.</p>

<p>And alumni and parents who post: I'm not asking you to sugarcoat Williams, but, please, think before you start ranting. In this thread alone, at least one of you has done both Williams and the original poster a huge disservice. I'm glad there was an apology but it was a little late...</p>

52

<p>I find this thread ugly and disturbing. I'm a first time visitor to the Williams threads, on behalf of my d, and have to say, this is a total turnoff. She's being recruited by a Williams coach, so we're trying to form an impression from across the country. This is the busiest thread on CC. Someone please give me a reason to continue to look at the number 1 rated LAC in the country!</p>

53

<p>riverrunner, Welcome. Williams is a wonderful college and is especially runner-friendly. Please don't let a spat among anonymous posters discourage you. This thread did seem to go off on a couple of cantankerous tangents. Usually the natives are quite friendly. </p>

<p>Why don't you start a new thread and fire away some questions?</p>

54

<p>Its generally a bad idea to judge a school by a small sample of individuals (none of whom are students) on an internet forum.</p>

<p>My suggestion would be not to rely on an internet forum to form opinions. You should visit the school, and talk to students and faculty.</p>

55

<p>Wish we had the luxury of a trip, but it's mid season, she's a senior, and we live in a low pop state, far from Williams, and haven't run in to a local alum. Therefore we're limited to remote contact like this, and maybe a visit from the W rep. Thanks for the welcome, momrath. I'll take a look around and post a new thread if I don't find answers.</p>

56

<p>Yes, I agree momrath and MikeyD. In no way does one person reflect the entirety of Williams and it would be wasteful to reject a school simply on those grounds.</p>

57

<p>Reading this discussion makes me wonder whether rankings will be the ruin of Williams...</p>

58

<p>Nah... People dont get too far beyond the page with the national university rankings</p>

59

<p>Riverrunner, I've only heard great things about Williams' running coaches and I think running at Williams is a great opportunity and experience. You might want to PM momofwildchild for her thought on the Williams track program.</p>

60

<p>Look at the track teams' websites. You may have to go through "Archives" to see it (the main Sports website is being revised), but look for the photos of where cross-country trains. Sweet!</p>

<p>These are great teams. Very, very bright. Pete is a terrific coach.</p>

<p>Get the coaches and some of the current students who post to put your child in touch with some currrent runners by PM. If that doesn't work, look up "stars" who are featured on the website, and write to them. Look under "People Directory" on the main Williams home page for contact information. Have your child explain that your family is from far away and can't get there for a visit. I think you'll get a very warm welcome.</p>

<p>Good luck. Please don't let the posts on this thread turn you away.</p>