I am shocked by some above who say that seeing their counselor is not allowed. My comment about it starting in 9th grade is not that one has to have meetings or conferences about college, but start a relationship - like stop by, have the kid introduce themselves. A couple of times a year is all. Surely, if your child has a scheduling issue, wouldn’t they go see the counselor? Needed an opinion on a class to take? Go see the counselor. It is not that hard. At my child’s school they actually have one person - besides the guidance counselor he is assigned to - that is a College Counselor of sorts. I think she can help with providing direction if needed. I think their main duty is scheduling the college AOs when they come around in the AO travel season in the Fall. And I completely disagree that private schools might have better counselors. I found the exact opposite in my kids situation.
My kids’ school doesn’t assign counselors until halfway through junior year. Their academic advisor is the person to ask for specific advice about summer internships and which subject test to take, etc. Still, I’ve always found the GCs helpful and good with their recommendations. Some parents feel that they lowball for safeties but I don’t share that view. They also run essay workshops, edit essays and supplements, guide students in selecting teachers to ask for recommendation letters, run several parent workshops, let students know the “real deal” behind the numbers on Naviance wrt past graduates, schedule the AO visits, etc. They earn their paychecks.
“And I completely disagree that private schools might have better counselors. I found the exact opposite in my kids situation.”
I won’t argue with that. When we pulled DD out of a parochial school and moved her to the public system, we were shocked at how many clubs there were (and they cost little, if anything), how many more course selections there were (even for middle schoolers), and how the public school not only supplied all the copy paper and tissues for the classrooms, but they even supplied the poster boards for assigned projects (even if that was a nod to families with very tight budgets, that small convenience to parents would never-in-a-million-years have happened in her private school). It stands to reason that if the budget isn’t there in every case for a variety of ECs,excellent class selection, and school supplies, it is not going to be there for more GCs. I know there are very selective and pricey elite high schools that are the exception, but in our area, for the most part, the public schools have pretty decent funding.
Both of my sons met with their GC in junior year, and again early in senior year.
S1’s GC also met with us junior year as we reviewed the list of schools. S1’s GC questioned Reed and agreed on MIT/UChicago EA vs. Stanford SCEA but was otherwise good with his list. He had ten schools, dropped three after great EA results, got into exactly the four he wanted. A former middle school CS teacher suggested that S do USACO and look at Harvey Mudd, which was the best advice we had from anyone.
S2, who was at a different HS, met with the GC junior year (we were not invited, though with both guys, we were asked to complete a questionnaire that was part of what they used for the GC letter). S2 had a much longer list of potential schools (looked at about two dozen, was prepared to apply to ten, dropped two after getting Chicago).
GC was pushing LACs and Yale, and thought Chicago was a big reach. He got into Chicago EA, didn’t apply to Yale (and was spared the bloodbath of the quarter of his class who applied EA), and didn’t get into any of the LACs (rejected at two, waitlisted at two). Got into the schools he really wanted.
Frankly, the most useful info we had came from CC and Naviance (esp for admit data from magnet programs where the acceptance rates differ significantly). We were also lucky that both guys had a clear-cut idea of what they wanted to study and the types of places they wanted to be. It was a VERY different experience from what DH and I had as first-generation college students; our parents had no clue. The GCs at these two large public schools did the best they could, but they also had many other and more important duties. We tried not to take up much of their time.
My take on GCs is that they are just like doctors and lawyers. Some have no idea what they’re doing, and you can’t believe they are in a position of responsibility. But the good ones are worth their weight in gold.
I was at a fantastic professional training program today and heard three HS GCs speak who KNOW THEIR STUFF. The students at their three wildly different high schools are lucky to have them.
I feel lucky for excellent counseling, and our school (private) had a dedicated staff that did only college counseling, not advising or anything else a GC would do in a public school. They visited schools, talked to AOs, and knew the 25 or 30 kids assigned to them well. They could reach out to teachers,and coaches as well. And yes, we paid a lot of tuition to have this as part of the package.
Fwiw, our public school is huge, graduating about 1000 a year. They tried 2 systems. In one, counselors were assigned by grade and they had kids go through all 4 years with the same counselor, who knew them and the challenges of their grade well. But that meant counselors were doing college counseling once every 4 years, and frankly, they were out of touch.
When they tried to dedicate counselors to cc only, they didn’t know the kids.
Overall, the preference was for knowing the kids for 4 years, but the system really conspired against them being able to do CC well.
D19 guidance counselor was virtually no help in selecting schools. Our HS has just short of 2100 kids and 9 counselors. They assign counselors based on first letter of last name, so A thru C are assigned a particular counselor and it is the same every year. S22 has been assigned the same counselor this year. I doubt she even knows they are related.
@gardenstategal Do you think results would have been better if the college GC was assigned to each student in junior and senior year (so 2 years instead of 4)? To me that would be the sweet spot where they would have recent experience with actual results from the process, could get kids really thinking about college junior year, would get to know the students, and only half of their assigned students would be in need of LOR, etc for college apps each year.
With my DS16 the college counselor was just getting to know him senior year and made no suggestions in regard to schools. Maybe that was because we, in her words, “already have(d) a good plan” in the fall of senior year, but she appeared to know nothing about the school he ultimately chose to attend (with generous merit). He had that acceptance and merit award in his hands before Halloween which really took the pressure off. What if we had not already had a good plan?
My experience at my kids’ schools was very much like @gardenstategal’s. 3 different private schools, all with dedicated college counselors. 25 seniors per counselor. Starting freshman year the kids also have/had advisors who meet with the kids multiple times a week and help them with things like course selection and personal issues.
I’ve been very happy with the college counseling we’ve gotten. In all 3 cases the counselors recommended schools I’d never heard of that ended up on their final list. Considering the amount of time I’ve spent on CC that wasn’t an easy task. With the first two I thought their predictions were quite solid. We’ll see about the third.
Our college counselors meet with kids freshman and sophomore year but don’t get into the meat of college advising until the spring of junior year. There’s also a monthly newsletter that goes out to all parents detailing what should be going on with the college process for each grade. There are grade-wide college counseling meetings for parents as well as one-on ones with the counselors. There’s dedicated time put aside in the school year for college work. For instance, when the juniors took the PSAT recently the seniors had a college session in which they worked on applications and the school had college counselors and teachers available to read essays.
I think one thing that helps the counselors predict who will and won’t get in where they do is that they all teach academic courses and some coach, so they get to know the kids, or at least hear about the kids from their colleagues, outside the college counseling process.
Our HS guidance counselors are useless except for the very top 5% of kids. S19’s counselor hasn’t met with him yet on college. But we had a different meeting and I told her he is done with applications and selection. S17’s counselor has a set list that clearly she gives to everyone and her counselors essay was, for the most part, a cut and paste from what we and my son provided her. Lots of grammatical errors and missing words on the five sentences she wrote.
We got no advice or feedback from the GC at all. Couldn’t get an appointment with her in early/mid Dec, when we needed some advice. She also failed to update her rec to include his significant jr yr honors at the state/national level, as I found out after the fact.
She had the senior class, just under 200 kids IIRC. I think that transferring the whole class to one person is stupid.
The process of getting recs and transcripts out, on the other hand, was well organized.
I thought our guidance department was decent. We have a 3 freshman only guidance counselors for 450 students. They do a good job but don’t overly focus on college beyond making sure your taking the right classes for 10th grade. Early on I think they are trying to make sure high school adjustment is okay etc.
Then the students have the same guidance counselor for 10-12th grade. All 10th and 11th graders take the PSAT. 9th graders typically go on a college visit that day. 12th graders may opt to work on resumes, college apps, ask for lor, take first aid/cpr etc. Guidance meets with everyone individually a few times a year. In 10th grade they talk about college more generally encouraging kids to work hard so college is at least an option and when it is time to pick classes making sure they know the minimum graduation requirements isn’t all that is needed for college admissions etc.
In 11th grade they do some full class things in either the auditorium or ELA classes talking about job training, military, college etc and provide general info about applying to colleges such as making sure students know about SAT tests and student waivers etc. They also meet 1 on 1 at least twice a year once to check in and once to pick classes for the next year. In addition to official school guidance counselors (who are just for academics, college, jobs/career training etc but not serious issues (we have social workers for that)
Senior year they have meetings with ELA classes that cover college applications and some paperwork related to that and talk about getting teacher recommendations etc. They also hold evening parent sessions on both college process and financial aid. ELA teachers start out senior year having all seniors work on an essay which they help edit for college applications even if they say they aren’t planning on applying. The school has an outside organization that volunteers with students and parents for the financial aspects of college including providing additional scholarship info. They can help students research college prices and help them understand merit scholarships etc.
I do know that even though my daughter was full time dual enrollment for junior and senior year there were times the school dual enrollment guidance counselor emailed her info. Other times her own guidance counselor emailed her and requested to see her. When they did the full class sessions senior year it was mandatory that dd go to a class (they gave her times AP ELA classes were meeting to see if one of them worked for her). Both the dual enrollment guidance counselor and my daughter’s guidance counselor knew her by name. Her own guidance counselor explained the easiest way to get and put up an official transcript from the dual enrollment school onto naviance. She also knew what one school was looking for that didn’t use the common app. She did say that school was known for being a tad difficult to work with and it was. She told my daughter she had a good list of safeties and matches and to consider another reach.
In the end my daughter listened to guidance recommendations and probably applied to some but not all of the schools and stayed with the schools she picked out on their own. I can’t say how good guidance was with picking a major because my daughter knew early on what she planned to go to school for.
Most GCs at public high schools aren’t that knowledgeable if you are applying to elite schools. They probably have a good sense of student odds at the most common targets. If your kid decides to apply to Middlebury and no one from your HS has been admitted there in the past 10 years, your guess could be as good as the GC.
“I am shocked by some above who say that seeing their counselor is not allowed.”
Agree it would be shocking it was not allowed at all. I think what may be happening i( as in some bay area public HS) you can see the counselor as a freshman but the seniors and juniors will be prioritized. But you are required to see the counselor for course recommendations in 9th, 10th and 11th in the spring, and for course changes, though any counselor can do that, if you just need to change a class to accommodate a sport or something like that.
Many schools do have separate college counselors as many posters have said, but not all, which is interesting how some schools in the same district have them, but others don’t. It’s possible the CCs are called something else or are under the main GC dept.
My kid’s counselors wouldn’t know her if they tripped over her in their offices. One is theoretically responsible for high school related issues, and is responsible for ~450 kids. One is theoretically responsible for post-high school related issues, and is responsible for ~1,800 kids, ~600 of whom are seniors.
what input? we sat in a meeting with 1000 other parents and saw a slide show. Everything I know about applying, writing essays, reach schools, etc. I learned on my own. My poor first son was the guinea pig but by number 3 I am doing much better. 
My education was in Canada, so I had no experience with US college admissions other than what I read here. My first child to apply to a US university was #2. She was attending a Canadian public high school, but is a dual US/Canadian citizen. She got zero guidance from her guidance counselor. I set up a meeting between myself and her guidance counselor the fall of her senior year to discuss college applications. During the 10 minutes I was allotted, we must have been interrupted 6 times. The GC forgot to send in interim report cards to the US colleges. I’m fairly certain that the GC letter was very generic - the GC mentioned having to have a meeting with the other GC’s to decide what to write in the letter. This was after they were unable to provide #2 with a senior year schedule with the classes she had chosen. #2 had a pretty disastrous admissions season for the US schools.
When it came time a couple of years later for #1 to apply to US grad schools (from a Canadian undergrad), I insisted he hire an admissions consultant. He ended up with much better results than #2.
3 is currently attending a US private school. A main part of the decision to send him there was the access to decent college counseling. I may still hire a private college counselor.
The ones that are spot on must go to good schools lol.
All of the GCs wehave had are “basic” maybe why I dont put much weight on adcom opinions.
Guys it is so ill mportant to study a couple hours for your standardized tests, did you fill out fafsa, remember community college is a great way to get prereqs, etc etc etc.
3 different schools they all seemed average at best and I learned ZERO from any of them.
4 GC’s cover maybe 1500 students. I’m guessing that 90%+ of students who go to college either go to the local directional U, the state flagship, or one of the local community colleges or trade schools. All of which are basically open admission.
As a result, if you fall outside of that you are pretty much on your own. S1 went to a directional U in a neighboring state, which was not difficult but I pretty much was his GC for that one. S2 is presumably going to an Ivy as an athletic recruit, assuming he gets in (which his coach has assured us is not an issue with his stats). Pretty much I am also doing everything here too.
I will say for S1 and so far for S2 they do seem to be on top of getting things done on time, which is their most important job. I haven’t had any issues with deadlines getting missed, and they did advise S2 about a couple things for getting his Common App completed and in on time (which is to date the first advice he has received about college from them).
I believe in November and December seniors will each have a “senior interview” with the GC, basically about what their future plans are. That’s a bit late if your plans are anything other than an open admission college or getting a job. ED deadlines will be past and RD deadlines fast approaching for schools without open admission.
S2’s coach, on the other hand, was spot on. When he found out S was looking at high academic schools, he told me to be sure to contact Schools X and Y. (Since S isn’t technically admitted yet I’ll leave the names out). I was flattered by his confidence, but thought that School X was hopelessly out of reach athletically, and School Y was a huge stretch. But I put them on the list of coaches for S to contact. A year later he was told by School Y that he was a top recruit, and even more surprising to me he will be attending School X, which has been his dream school forever.
I’m a bit concerned about D19 coming up. She is looking to go to high academic schools, but she won’t have an athletic hook so it’s a completely different process. I may end up paying a private counselor, although I don’t think there are really any here locally. Something for me to worry about down the road, for now just making sure S2 gets his essays completed and that ED app out the door before Nov 1.
Outstanding college counseling and guidance are a big part of what you are paying for at the New England boarding schools, and they deliver. The process starts early, and the advisors and GCs know both their students and colleges intimately; they’ve been in this business a long time. We were able to be completely hands-off during our son’s admissions cycle, although his GC kept us in the loop. Unfortunately, our son decided he wanted a service academy which is a process almost entirely outside the normal HS CC scope as the military academies have their own sets of rules and counselors (Field Force Reps, Blue and Gold Officers, etc.) to shepherd candidates through the daunting almost year-long nomination/application/medical/physical gauntlet. Our son’s HS provided transcripts and his teachers submitted LORs, but that’s about it. He had to do the rest on his own. Eventually, we were able to joke that we only got “CC Lite” from his school for the service academies and thought we should have gotten a bit of a refund. For his civilian college apps, though, the GC was pure gold. Too bad he passed on those choices. They were spot on in our opinion.