Meeting with G.C. to discuss college

Parents Forum
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<p>I've been lurking for a little while and decided to join. My D is a junior and we are feeling overwhelmed by the whole college process, but I must say that this site has given me a lot of information and I'm very grateful.</p>

<p>Perhaps someone could help me make the most of my D's junior conference which is tomorrow. My D has a 3.9 GPA W but her PSAT's project that her SAT will probably be only 1270 or so, she just took the SAT this Saturday so we will find out the result in April. She wants to attend a small to medium sized LAC.</p>

<p>I am hoping to get a list of colleges the the G.C. thinks would be good matches and safeties for D, but other than that I'm not sure what kind of info we should try to get from the G.C. Unfortunately, this G.C. has a reputation for doing as little work as possible which is one of the reasons I'm trying to start doing my own research.</p>

<p>I'd really appreciate it if someone could give me ideas on what type of info I should try to get at the conference.</p>

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<p>Sarha,</p>

<p>We have a similar situation at my D's school. She is in a small IB program in a large urban school. It seems like the GC is focused on athletic scholarships, etc. That's why I figured I'd better do my own research. This forum, along with college guide books have helped me a lot.</p>

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<p>Hi Sahra, glad you finally decided to delurk. I agree with audiophile. What I found when talking with my daughter's GC was that she had a standard "list" of schools that the high school had sent kids to in the past. She didn't suggest any schools that were not on that list and many of the schools she did suggest were more safety schools for my daughter than matches. When my daughter mentioned a few excellent schools that we had found through our own research, she was clueless. Our school doesn't send many kids to LAC's so they really weren't on her radar. Your mileage may vary, depending on your high school.</p>

<p>I'd suggest asking the guidance counselor for some general suggestions about schools for your daughter and considering that a starting point for your daughter's college search, not the absolute be all and end all of what's really out there. Supplement those suggestions with your own research here on CC and elsewhere. This is an excellent resource and a good place to get detailed information about options your guidance counselor might not even know about that might be perfect fits for your daughter.</p>

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<p>You may have to use CC, books, websites, etc. to research colleges yourself (for example: did you know there are LACs that don't require SATs, including Bowdoin - in the top ten - and Bates - in the top 20 or so?)</p>

<p>Use the meeting with the GC to find out specific high school stuff - do they limit the # of apps? Do they have a timetable when different things need to be in? Are there are any junior year scholarship/awards she can apply for (since this is the time to get them on her transcript). My child is going to take an Ivy summer course, so I asked what needed to be done to get it on the transcript (lucky I asked - forms must be filled out IN ADVANCE or they won't put it on the transcript!). Other posters may be able to think of other questions.</p>

<p>Oh, and welcome to the board!</p>

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<p>It looks like you wil have to do most of the college research yourself. That's okay - the research is lots of fun!<br>
You said, "I'm not sure what kind of info we should try to get from the G.C." I would suggest that you look at this more as a time for your guidance counselor to get to know your daughter's interests, strengths goals, work experience, community involvement etc. She/he will be writing a very important recommendation, and possibly also recommending students for local scholarships and such. Take this time to really talk about the student; the college research you can do on your own time!</p>

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<p>Don't worry at all about what you think the PSATs will predict. Your D can raise her scores a ton with a little prep, and just by taking the SAT a few times. I bet she can easily get it up to the high 1300s or higher by next fall.
Agree with all the other advice. S has an excellent GC at a private boarding school, but I have done a ton of research on my own and this forum is THE BEST! Just don't get too intimidated by the incredible stats that the kids/parents discuss here. This is a small, obsessive part of the applicant pool. I say that as one of the MOST obsessed! Figure out what your D really finds attractive in a school and then start picking the reach, match, safety schools for an initial look-see. You will have a better idea after these SAT scores come back, but recognize that she can improve AND can try ACT as another option. Welcome and be prepared to get addicted.</p>

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<p>Wow! Thankyou all for all your help and for the excellent suggestions. </p>

<p>MomofWildChild, I hope you are right and my D can pull her SAT score up because that would give her so many more excellent schools to choose from. She has her heart set on Haverford but unless those scores improve I think it's a longshot.</p>

<p>I find it a little intimidating that so many posters and their children seem to have such awesome stats. I'm hoping by doing a lot of research I can help my D find a school where she will flourish.</p>

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<p>It is extremely important to know the timetable and document requirements of the Guidance Office. Our school likes paper applications. They have had problems with kids applying on-line without notifying the guidance office. Therefore the school never sent out the transcripts-teacher recommendations etc. Our school sends out the complete package. This system seems to work because I haven't heard of horror stories about colleges missing documents. Our HS's deadline for processing applications is around Dec. 5th as they need the time to get the application package out to the colleges before the Xmas. recess. Many a senior was sick the first week of Dec. to finish their applications. Re: schools--until you have a better idea of the SAT scores it's hard to pinpoint specific schools but the GC meeting is a starting point. And you can always come back and get some input from us. This place is an incredible source of info. Good luck. Our GC meeting is Monday. I hope my d is more talkative with her GC than us because we get a fair amount of shoulder shrugging and "I dunno" regarding college selection.</p>

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<p>I can not emphasize more the importance of doing as much research as possible on your own. First, you are lucky to have a conference with your S's GC. My S's GC appears to be the best in our area, yet does not do these kind of conferences with parents unless the parents request them.</p>

<p>Second, people here are right that many GCs have a standard list of schools that they are familiar with. If you want to know the full range of your D's options, you need to do lots of research on your own, and also think very carefully about what kinds of places would be good fits for your D. You need to know whether your D is likely to thrive in a small town/small LAC or at a large, sports and Greek-oriented public university.</p>

<p>You also need to know how much money you are willing to pay for you D's college, and how far away you're willing to have her go.</p>

<p>When you talk to the GC, it will be important for you to bring up these points, and to also emphasize the special things about your D -- her achievements, ECs, etc. Also find out not just about deadlines, but also about the materials that the GC would find helpful for your D to have included in her file. This could mean recommendations from employers, copies of awards, a resume, etc. These things will help your GC write a more personal recommendation than one based only on grades and stats.</p>

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<p>Does anyone know where one can find a sample resume for a hs student?</p>

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<p>Sarha: lots of good suggestions above; won't repeat them. What you need to find out, in general, are two things: 1- exactly what is the school's process, including how many visits you may be able to have with the GC and when; 2 - what is the GC's general way of thinking - if he/she is going to suggest types of schools or specific schools - why? What's the basis? How well does he/she know your D and what's the likelihood of that improving? You're nicely early in the selection process so when you have a better handle on things such as these you'll be able to make necessary adjustments</p>

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<ol>
<li>College Selection; Agree with Carolyn, Northstarmom and the other posters. It's partly knowing yourself and then knowing the colleges so that you can find the right fit(s). You'll want about eight "fits" in the end. For your daughter to know her needs she will run the usual lists to narrow the field: big Vs little, state Vs. private, area of the country, need for grants etc. Some of this requires some introspection plus some visits to local colleges representing the different "types".
To know the colleges you'll want to assemble a large menu and start narrowing. It sounds like your daughter is a serious student and should be looking at some of the guide books featuring the better schools in the country. These usually feature over three hundred colleges which should be enough to start. I recommend the Fiske guide which features a mixture of the statistical data with some of the flavor of the college. Another reason I like it is that it usually presents a positive picture of each school, in other words what this school can be to the enthusiastic hard working student. The Princeton guide is fun reading, more flavor than accuracy, but fun nevertheless. "Colleges that Change Lives" gives another point of view.
Also, visiting their web sites is useful.</li>
<li>Prepping for the SAT
Math: easiest section to prep for. Your daughter will already have taken the subjects covered. The blocks to getting a great score are nervousness and unfamiliarity with the style of questions. Both of these can be dealt with by taking practice tests. The rehearsal will help with performance anxiety. Looking at the questions she misses will familiarize her with the type of questions on the test, which also helps with nervousness.
Verbal: Lots of reading which she is probably doing and practice tests.
Writing: reading and practice essays.</li>
<li>Haverford is a great college.</li>
</ol>

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<p>Oh! And have fun!</p>

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<p>To have fun, read "Harvard Schmarvard", which is funnier than "Colleges that Change Lives" and is along similar lines</p>

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<p>I have to thank all of you again for all the suggestions you are giving me. I'm going to print out this thread so that I can refer to it.<br>
I'm really glad I found this wonderful site.</p>

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<p>We are a wonderful group, if we do say so ourselves. ;)</p>

<p>Just want to give you a little support on the 1270 SAT. My S is an excellent student, whose weak point was PSAT/SAT. [ul][<em>]We had resisted prep courses, but did decide, in the end, to go that route. He did not raise as much as we might have dreamed, but did get over the 1300 benchmark (and, being an S, not a D, was not as devoted to the effort as he might have been). [</em>]In his case, he was 710M ( not TOO bad) but 600 V. Since his focus was engineering, I think schools seemed to overlook the mediocre composite somewhat. So evaluate her "ultimate" SAT in terms of her interests, not just composite. [<em>]S did not try the ACT, which, in hindsight, I think would have been wise, and recommend you consider that. It has worked for many. [</em>]Agree you should seek out those excellent schools which do not require SAT or ACT. (We couldn't do that, as it doesn't seem to occur with engineering-type schools). [li]Finally, there are many GREAT schools where these type of stats (with strong GPA, recs,essay) will work and even some where merit aid will happen.[/ul][/li]S is 99% sure where he is going - Tulane with a large merit scholarship. He got into other competitive (but not HYPS/AWS) schools. He awaits one HYPS and may not get in, but is very pleased and excited with where he is. So don't get too focused on schools where "everyone" seems to be 1500+SAT.</p>

<p>Welcome!</p>

<p>PS Our GC said we could expect approx 100 point increase from PSAT to SAT. Didn't happen for my S, but maybe it will for your D (fingers crossed)</p>

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<p>Welcome to CC, sarha. I think the most important realization is that your GC is unlikely to have all the answers you want. Unless you are focused on schools to which your HS sends many students, you and your daughter will almost certainly end up knowing more than your counselor. In defense of GCs, in a typical HS environment they must deal with many issues other than college counseling, and elite-bound students are quite uncommon. Unless the GC makes a hobby of college research, its unlikely that he/she will get enough on-the-job exposure to rarely-mentioned colleges to be of much use.</p>

<p>It's still worth cultivating the relationship, of course, and your daughter should keep the GC informed of her thoughts and progress. Good luck!</p>

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<p>sarha, First, welcome to CC and the stressful -- but ultimately rewarding -- process of getting your kid into a wonderful college. Overwhelming it is, but you've come to the right place for advice on just about everything -- profound and mundane.</p>

<p>I think that Roger Dooley really summed it up when he said "your GC is unlikely to have all the answers you want." No one knows your child as you do and no one is as motivated to help her get into the college that's right for her as you are.</p>

<p>Your daughter has excellent grades. You'll find out what the outcome is on the SAT score soon enough and I think you've received some excellent advice on that front. The other factors that add to your daughter's whole profile are her extracurricular activities, her essays, her academic recommendations and any related "hooks" that she may have that may set her apart from the pack, like minority status, first generation college attendee, special talents or awards. LACs in particular take a holistic approach to admissions, so SATs, while important, are not the disproportionately so. The GC usually writes a recommendation, so developing a personal relationship is a good thing. Hopefully, this will just be the kickoff of a whole series of increasingly focused meetings between your daughter and the GC. If the GC turns out as you suspect to be less than helpful, don't despair. Unfortunately, this is not unusual and there are plenty of other good sources of information.</p>

<p>Since your daughter is already focusing on a small to medium sized school and she likes the idea of Haverford, she has a good starting place. Next step would be to talk about whether she wants urban, suburban or rural; coed or all-girls, geographic area, any special academic focus. With this general information, between your own research, the GC's suggestion, and idea from parents on this board you should be able to could come up with a list of about 15-20 schools. Visit as many as you can, in as many categories as possible, with the objective of narrowing into 8-10 by the end of the summer. Finding a less selective school with nearly guaranteed admissions to be your daughter's safety is always the most time consuming and challenging part of the search, but also is the most important.</p>

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<p>Sarha:</p>

<p>I think it is unrealistic to rely on the GC for college selection. It's really a task that you and your son have to take on. Here are a few tips:</p>

<p>a) Read the book "The Gatekeepers", by a NY TIMES reporter who followed an admissions officer at Wesleyan. It will give you a qualitative feel for the process, the way students are evaluated by different standards, and the sorts of things that your son might want to emphasis on his applications.</p>

<p>b) Buy a copy of The Fiske Guide to Colleges. The caspule descriptions of schools are invaluable.</p>

<p>c) The USNEWS rankings guide is also invaluable, not so much for their rankings as for the data provided - median SAT scores, acceptance rates. I think the on-line premium version is $10 well spent as it allows you to sort the charts by admissions difficulty (selectivity index). Plus providing a tremendous amount of detail about each school: diversity, percentage of students receiving financial aid, percentage of frats/sororities, percentage of varsity athletes, etc.</p>

<p>d) The single biggest piece of info you can get from the guidance counselor is a list of schools where kids with your son's class rank have been accepted. The combination of class rank and the specific high school is hugely important in predicting admissions. For example, suppose that you find out kids like him have been accepted from his high school at Wesleyan. That would be useful in evaluating Haverford since they are similarly selective.</p>

<p>e) It will be hard to pick safeties, matches, and reaches until you have an SAT score. Then, you have to consider race. For example, a white suburban applicant would like the be 75th percentile (the higher of the two numbers listed for SATs in the guidebooks) for a college to be considered a solid match. An underrepresented minorty (URM) from an urban high school might need 25th percentile SATs to be a match.</p>

<p>f) Build the list from the solid center up and down. If Haverford is a reach, then find similar schools that your son is likely to get into. Nail those down first, then expand the list upwards to include a reach or two.</p>

<p>Hope this helps get you started.</p>

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<p>Second, third and fourth reading "The Gatekeepers." Not only is it a very inside picture of the admissions process, but it is a "page-turner."</p>