I am not that familiar with sales/trading but I assume it would be the same unless you go into technology-based companies such as Citadel.
Lots of quanty-techie desks at banks.
The whole world has been computerizing / quantizing.
Need those skills!
Watch âIndustryâ on HBO ⊠itâs a caricature and totally unrealistic,
but it catches some of the drift.
But even in banking, there has been a steady drift to hiring more techie people.
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Itâs been the mid-90âs since I worked on Wall Street, but I would have said at the time that the best way to get a job there was to get a computer science or financial engineering degree, and things have only gotten more computer-based since then. Itâs easier to hire someone with a techie degree and teach then finance, trading or IB than the other way around. Half my time on Wall Street was spent learning about fixed income securities, trading and analytics, which I found more interesting than the computer stuff. I worked at a couple of large and well-known investment management companies in San Francisco after that, and the majority of people in both companies were technical rather than purely financial.
I think people overestimate the number of people working on IB deals in the finance industry. Itâs like how people assume that if you want to work at Boeing, you should be an aerospace engineer. But there are actually very few of those compared to all the other engineering types who work there, such as EE, ME, CS.
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Consider that thereâs a high likelihood it could be neither one. Both Berkeley and Wharton are high reach schools. And one of those schools is out of your price range, which takes it off the table completely.
Also consider that Investment banking is one out of literally thousands of occupations you could have with a business degree. You donât want to go into college with that kind of mindset. Itâs not uncommon for graduates to come out of a prestigious school with $200,000 in debt and find out that they hate investment bankingâŠor find out that they love it, but canât afford the debt.
My advice, letâs see what schools you get into, because that usually settles these kinds of debates anyway. Iâm assuming you applied to some good match and safety schools too 
Itâs still the same, even more so.
Quite frankly, at the higher levels, I think it makes as much sense to choose an undergraduate institution based on cost/affordability as it does to choose a spouse based on assets/debt.
Especially if you are interested in business, you have to think bigger. Fit and passion should be the primary considerations. You should not go to Wharton if you donât believe that you will be financially successful.
If you are able to get into a school like Wharton and you have a passion for business you would be an idiot not to go. It will be a decision that will haunt you for the rest of your life, especially if you go to a lesser school only because it is more affordable. The education, connections, access and credentials you will get with an undergraduate Wharton degree are unparalleled on the global stage.
Saving a sum of money (low six figures) is not worth it if you have a long-term perspective. Whartonâs undergraduate program is so comprehensive, often an MBA is unnecessary/repetitive. The money you save by going to a lesser undergraduate program may eventually be needed to enroll in a top MBA program (which now cost more than $200K) to achieve your IB goals.
While my degree from Wharton is not from the undergraduate program (MBA), it was followed by a career in IB where the cost of my education was recouped in less than three years and my alumni network is one of my most important assets.
FYI, the jobs I had subsequent to Wharton did not recruit at flagship state schools.
All this being said, some caveats:
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One of the most important elements to the Wharton experience is the people. Direct assess to the community of faculty, students (both Wharton and Penn), and the alumni network are much of what you are paying for and with Covid, it will be a lesser experience. I would not go/pay for an on-line Wharton experience.
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In some ways an undergraduate experience is supposed to be broadening, whereas the Wharton undergraduate experience is very focused. You have to really know you want to be in business and want to narrow yourself this early in life. This is a big consideration and should be your primary decision. It would be an expensive mistake to pay up to go to Wharton if you are unsure of your commitment to a career in business.
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As some of the other posters have said, it is pretty competitive to get into schools like Wharton and UCB, so you probably need to cast a wide net. When my kids were looking at schools, I was very impressed with the Sloan program at MIT. Both Wharton and Sloan, while excellent, were too focused/narrow for my kids for their undergraduate experience.
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Honestly, Wharton is strongest in finance-centric disciplines like IB, PE etc. Not as strong in entrepreneurialism. Why not add Stanford to your list of reach schools? Could combine the best of both worlds.
I think what I learned at Wharton is to think bigger and that luck is when opportunity meets preparation.
While UCB is a fine school and has an okay undergraduate business program, you may be luckier at Wharton.
Just my opinion, I know others will disagree. Obviously, this is all moot until you know if you have been admitted. Donât let cost be the deciding factor.
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When it is not affordable at all (which appears to be the case for the OP), then the choice is not available.
Also, marriages often fail due to money disagreements; a prospective spouse in deep debt that will be difficult to pay off seems like a high marriage risk.
With all due respect, I think you have completely missed my point(s).
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Properly focused, very few things are unaffordable. A lot depends on what your priorities are and what you are willing to sacrifice for them. IBâs love to hire people who are in debtâŠthey canât afford to quit.
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Making an important life choice without considering fit and passion is risky in the long run. I am sure most people who get and stay married did not make this important life decision primarily because their spouse was asset rich/debt free. If this was true, how do poor people find spouses?
Good luck to the OP and hoping he has choices.
I think while what a lot of what you said is true, itâs ESPECIALLY true for GRAD School.
27-35 year olds are a lot more mature and value the networking a lot more.
18-21 year olds are different. IB more often than not assumes that the analysts will go to business schools ⊠(which often adds another 160k of debt).
Berkley isnât just a âSTATE FLAGSHIPâ and probably has as much clout on the resume.
Given how much money OP gets to save - he can then can get a Wharton
MBA and a new car.
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I donât like telling other people how to spend their money. I also know that very few 17 or 18 year olds understand what investment banking is, and if one tries to educate them on the differences between a traditional M&A path vs. equity analyst vs. quant trading their eyes glaze over- because other than âit pays wellâ and itâs prestigious (among a certain type of family/acquaintances), they donât understand how banking and capital markets operate.
Which is fine- thatâs what an education is for. Thatâs why nobody interviews 17 year olds for jobs at a top tier financial institution.
So to the OP- Iâd bet you lunch that whether you go to Wharton or Berkeley, you wonât end up in I-banking when you graduate. Not because of the institution you attend- but because you discover that you love something more- or that you canât stand what youâd be doing as an I-banker. There are dozens of careers that a place like Wharton can prepare you for, and you may find banking to be the least interesting of all of them. And of course- one cannot predict the economic cycles at all that far out- maybe working at Goldman is the hot career when you graduate, maybe itâs somewhere else that hasnât even been created yet (some incredible crypto/digital platform thatâs going to transform the world that only exists inside some Macarthur geniuses head right now).
Go where you can afford- thatâs always solid advice. Take on modest debt if you have to- betting on yourself is typically a solid investment- but that means the federal loans, not 100K which will severely impact your parents lifestyle and retirement. Recognize that wanting to work in I-banking is a HS kidâs version of wanting to be a cowboy or firefighter when you grow up, and that you are likely to find something you love even more once you get to college.
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It is not just the OPâs risk and sacrifice. It is also the risk and sacrifice of the OPâs parents and siblings.
Being forced into a particular career direction by debt looks undesirable in terms of limiting options.
I think you are getting ahead of your self by trying to decide between 2 schools that havenât admitted you. Particularly when the schools are this selective. They are both reaches even for very well qualified applicants.
Apply a bunch of places, see who admits you, then figure it out.
As a CA resident, you have lots of great options for biz - donât know your stats so, its hard to suggest specific match/reach/safety schools. Assuming youâve got very solid stats, SDSU, CSULB, UCI, UCR CSPSLO, Santa Clara, USD, LMU and Chapman are also worth aps.
Good luck.
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Does a $150K+ family income with two other siblings in college preclude you from non-loan financial aid from Wharton? Both would be awesome picks. Run the EFC for UPenn and see if they expect your family to be full pay. Unless you already have a fabulous entrepreneurial idea, youâll make plenty of $$ in banking to fund your idea. UCB will definitely lead to cool IB jobs in the Bay Area and LA (bit harder elsewhere) plus access to top corporate finance jobs.
You can major in anything at Penn and go into IB but it helps to go to Wharton and then it helps further to have top grades and internships. I worked at a top bulge bracket firm in NYC that had a recruiter dedicated to recruiting Wharton. Then it had a couple others recruiting other schools. For the Bay Area, they surely go to Stanford (multiple majors) and UCB.
Thereâs are also consulting jobs which give you a great overview of operations for entrepreneurial ideas. You can certainly major in other disciplines for consulting and they often fund an MBA if you want to go that route.
If youâre really into investments, think about this investment:
- Only about 1/3 of Wharton graduates go to work on Wall Street.
- Only about 1/3 of those who went to work on Wall Street continue to do so after two years.
How much extra are you willing to pay for this investment, even if you ignore any similar opportunities after a Berkeley education?
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Agree with all the comments that you are getting way ahead of yourself. Both programs are excellent and will open all sorts of doors for you, in banking, consulting or otherwise as long as you make good use of your time there. But that is also true of many, many other programs. As a former banker who was very much involved in hiring, a UCB (or pick any well regarded flagship) with a good GPA (3.7+) and with a good grounding in quantitative courses was not at a disadvantage relative to an undergrad business school candidate. The undergrad BSchools, especially Wharton, probably offer a stronger network into IB and a more direct recruiting pipeline, but at a cost of already narrowing your path in undergrad vs going to a traditional arts and sciences program.
Iâd rerun your NCC for UPenn. I am surprised that having multiple siblings doesnât affect your award unless your parents are very affluent.
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I re-ran the net price calculator and it did give me some financial aid but the cost of going is still in the 200 thousand range which is not really feasible. I was also surprised that the financial aid for Wharton was so small. I checked the same information at other Ivy leagues, since they are all fairly wealthy colleges, and there was a significant difference in the aid that was given, (around 100,000 for 4 years of tuition and board for all of them except Brown and Wharton).
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Context -
Is that an undergraduate statistic?
1/3 of Wharton going to work on Wall Street is off-the-charts incredible. There may not be another UG business school in the world with more graduates working there.
Of the 2-year types, was that also an UG Wharton statistic?
Also Wall Street isnât what it used to be ⊠as a 24 yr veteran I can attest to that.
Sell side is more and more migrating into âitâs the seat not the personâ mode, so
people donât get really paid for performance and the game becomes all about
politics and keeping that seat. Very difficult to get paid what bankers and traders
used to get paid in the past.
One can still do well on the buy side, but HFs I believe respect UCB as much as Wharton.
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Yes, itâs a high percentage. I believe it includes every types of positions (front, middle and back offices) in financial services, including all buy- and sell-side firms, plus accounting, insurance, etc.
That was due to the '08 financial crisis. Financial services are likely to see bigger and more persistent headwind ahead, from technological disruptions.