In State vs. Out of State Students

<p>I apologize for the sensitive nature of this question. On our recent campus visit, the W&M rep said that in-state students comprised something like two thirds of the students. She also said that two thirds of the applicants came from out-of-state, vying for the other one third of the places in the freshman class. She said that the in-state acceptance rate was about 40 percent and the out-of-state acceptance rate was about 20 percent.</p>

<p>My son came away from the campus visit thinking there would be a big difference in ability between the in-state and out-of-state students. I am not convinced this would be the case, considering that W&M is choosing the very best from a large pool of Virginia students.</p>

<p>Could recent grads and current students please tell me there is no substance to the idea that there is a difference between the two groups? </p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>I know kids from Northern VA and from the Norfolk area with GPAs above 4.0 and great SATs and EC’s who don’t get in because the school limits the numbers from those areas. DD was admitted as an out-of-state student and says the VA kids are amazing.</p>

<p>Statistically speaking, OOS students willing to pay OOS tuition also have more options for good schools than IS wanting to pay IS, so I’m pretty sure its about equal. By the numbers OOS is a tad better (I’m talking like 10 better on the combined SATs) (someone correct me if they actually have the numbers), but everyone has the want-to-learn mentality, for the most part.</p>

<p>Cap, I’m not sure the school puts limits on students for specific areas. NoVa has more than 2x the average representation based on student population. That is to say that if for every 100 students 1 was admitted across the state, some rural areas only get 1 for every 200 while NoVa has 1 for every 50.</p>

<p>DD said they did limit and I’ve heard that before. They could fill the entire school with qualified NoVA kids. Who knows.</p>

<p>the student body breakdown is as follows (roughly):
1/3 from Northern VA
1/3 from the rest of VA
1/3 from out of state</p>

<p>regarding the limit from Northern VA… they won’t admit to it directly (nor will UVA), but they need instate geographical diversity (just like national and international diversity). Northern Virginia has arguably the best public school systems in the country. </p>

<p>As a recent grad, I will say that there is no noticeable difference between the two groups (unless you encounter the ones that like to flaunt their northeast prep school obnoxiously, of which there are not too many (and those kids score negative points for out of staters)). The organizations that I was a part of all had instate students as part of their leadership. The only person to graduate with a 4.0 in my class was instate.</p>

<p>And lastly, there is a fallacy to this argument in the big picture (much like the males v. females argument). Just because there are more OOS applications for fewer spots, does not mean that they are more qualified. All it means is that a lower percentage of them get accepted. If twice as many IS students apply next year and the acceptance rate gets cut in half to 20% as a result, it does not mean the students who were accepted are more qualified than the ones who were accepted the year prior, even though the acceptance rate went from 40% to 20%.</p>

<p>I don’t see much of a difference at all.</p>

<p>I’d just like to say that I’m an OOS accepted student (central NJ) who is probably in the lower 25% to mid 50% in terms of SATs and grades. I didn’t have many extra-curriculars and no legacy. I have to say that the school looks at at all parts of the application and I really think my essay and recommendations helped during the selection process. I expect to be challenged when I go to W&M for my first semester this fall but I’m living proof you shouldn’t be discouraged from applying because of the seemingly unfair acceptance rate for OOS students.</p>

<p>Stat-wise, the out of staters have better numbers, and rightfully so because W&M is public, and there are more people going for fewer spots (1/3 or so). But it’s not like most out of state students are more stuck up, etc. because of it because most aren’t. Being stuck up or having a big head is just a state of mind and it could be anywhere at any school or anyplace in the world.</p>

<p>Also given that W&M is one of the best public universities in the US, and one of the best universities in the US overall, there are some really smart students are are both from VA and not from VA.</p>

<p>Some students who were stars in high school remain stars in college while others bomb out. It is a bit irrelevant. There is no predictor for success between the two groups, but for both groups motivation, study habits and maturity are predictors. Admitted kids are all going to be intelligent (generally speaking).</p>

<p>B/C the student body is so small for a public school, W&M can fill its 60% IS kids with some of the brightest in the country. Also, many of these IS students are culturally OOS since they moved to Virginia recently. The greater DC, Richmond, and Tidewater area have great schools and are growing very fast. </p>

<p>The combination of issues enables W&M to charge a public school price for an Ivyesque college experience. No other college in America can do this.</p>

<p>there’s really no noticeable difference in quality between the OOS and IS kids. there is definitely a difference in admission standards, but as i’ve come to realize just because somebody had a 2300 SAT score and 4.00 high school GPA doesn’t mean they will be able to translate that to college. </p>

<p>i’ve definitely met kids here who were in the bottom quartile for admissions stats and make dean’s list every semester, whereas i’ve also met kids from big name private schools in the northeast, or TJ, that have been on academic probation. there’s actually a lot of kids from TJ here and the ones that i know don’t perform nearly as well as i’d expect, considering how everyone in northern virginia thinks that the kids at TJ are geniuses.</p>

<p>^^I believe that as well. I wouldn’t put ANY of the students I know from TJ in the top quarter/third of students here.</p>

<p>Admittedly, I’m not in the science-type classes, and I am sure TJ alumni excel in those.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure the one kid who graduated last year with a 4.0 was from TJ.</p>

<p>… not to turn this thread into the merits of TJ, lol.</p>

<p>Yeah upon further reflection I withdraw the absolute degree of my other statement, though I’m having a bit of trouble figuring out how to edit it.</p>

<p>What’s “TJ”?</p>

<p>[Thomas</a> Jefferson High School for Science and Technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_High_School_for_Science_and_Technology]Thomas”>Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>One of the top high schools in the country.</p>

<p>And my daughter graduated from the second poorest city in the Commonwealth of Virginia and attends William and Mary. Yet, this semester, she has earned that elusive 4.0. In state, out of state…the classes, the professors, great equalizer.</p>

<p><em>uber-jealous</em></p>

<p>I’m mostly jealous that she has all of her grades already.</p>