<p>abc, I want to make sure you understand the definition of a “top student.” A better term would actually be “top candidate”, for you don’t have to be a tip-top *student<a href=“i.e.%203.9+%20in%20LSA,%204.2+%20in%20Ross”>/I</a>, to be a top candidate. A top candidate is not simply someone with top grades. It is someone who has relevant internship experience (which is hard to come by). For example, a non-Ross student with a 3.7 GPA and “Sales & Trading Summer Analyst - Bank of America Merrill Lynch” on his resume will not have trouble getting noticed by Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. However, a non-Ross student with a 3.9 GPA who only has extracurricular club positions on his resume is not considered a top candidate, even though he is considered a top student, and will thus have a much harder time getting recognition. Work experience, no matter how obtained, trumps all.</p>
<p>There are no clear stats that say that top LSA students have the same chances as top Ross students unless you want to count anecdotes as evidence. The point is, any Ross student regardless of his/her stats, start on a step higher than an LSA student simply because of the recruiting that goes on at Ross.</p>
<p>This is true. A top Ross candidate will likely have a marginally easier time, but top LSA candidates* will also get interview recognition, simply due to the fact that there aren’t many students with great work experience on their resume from whom employers can pick. The advantage is most exploited among the mid-tier candidates.</p>
<p>*Top candidate described in my previous post</p>
<p>Ross enables you to be less proactive in your job search, and if you’re just looking for any good job it’s perfect for you. However, proactive people from LSA and from Ross can have the same opportunities, with a potential advantage to those coming from LSA because they are far more likely to end up with straight As and their resume’s often look different from Ross students’. </p>
<p>You can get all of the recruiting info of Ross students if you find one who isn’t a hypercompetitive dick. The best interviews and recruitment opportunities that you find on your own, though, will be better than the mass ones available to Ross students. </p>
<p>Any of the quotes that speak to something like “why consider LSA students when you can have one from Ross?” is misguided. Note how many schools without undergraduate business programs end up with equal or better recruiting. It just makes sense that if recruiters have limited resources and they come to Michigan, they would start at Ross because they’ll find more people interested. They aren’t intentionally preferring Ross students to those in other colleges because they like them more.</p>
<p>False. Average Ross GPA is approximately a 3.6 whereas the average LSA GPA is approximately a 3.2. Ross is easier – you click a button and your resume is considered for interviews.</p>
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<p>False. What are the odds that an LSA student will be able to network his way into 1st round interviews with Goldman Sachs or Bain? All a Ross student needs to do is click a button (both students of course would first need stellar resumes).</p>
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<p>Harvard and Princeton don’t have B-Schools to hog all the recruiting. All the (smart) kids are on equal footing. All have equal opportunity to be considered for interviews (clicking a button).</p>
<p>Get good grades (3.8+) in a challenging major, join a few good extracurriculars where you can obtain leadership positions, get solid internship experience <- network / use connections. Advised: take accounting and finance in Ross.</p>
<p>This information is irrelevant to my point. The students in Ross are smarter and more competitive as an aggregate than those in LSA. What I’m saying is that a strong student can more easily get straight As pursuing a major in LSA than in Ross where grading is harsher in a few courses and great students are likely to get a B or two. Are you disputing this?</p>
<p>Additionally, those GPAs are unbalanced as Ross gives 4.4 for an A+, which is the most redundant and useless thing I’ve ever seen. An A+ isn’t more valuable to a recruiter because Ross decides it is. What if LSA decided that Cs were worth 4.0? </p>
<p>Regarding this “clicking a button” which you keep bringing up, when I talk about degree of “easiness” I’m referring to ability to obtain similar results with similar credentials, not the amount of physical effort you need to exert…</p>
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<p>So you’re arguing that YOU would be unable to find an equal or better opportunity through your own research, even if that research involved finding out who was coming to Ross, if Ross didn’t allow you to “click a button”. </p>
<p>If your answer is no, you are certainly not the proactive student that I’m talking about. </p>
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<p>I’m not sure I understand this response. I understand what it means, but I don’t get how it addresses the point you quoted. I basically said that a business program in and of itself doesn’t make one more or less recruited. HYPS and the like are recruited more than Ross students are and they don’t follow a path in business education.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: finance is my area. I am speaking largely to finance.</p>
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<p>I am disputing this. Decision-makers will not be impressed with a 4.0 Psych major. If you want to get noticed you will want to major in Econ, Math, Engineering, etc. Those majors are harder to get straight As in than in Ross, where in electives, 60% of the class is guaranteed an A- (not to mention the A+=4.4, B+=3.4).</p>
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<p>Most firms will not request a transcript in order to grant a first round interview. Decision-makers (note I say decision-makers, as recruiters do not choose who gets interviews, professionals at the firm do – i.e. bankers or consultants) will only see GPA on the resume, in which A+s can be hidden. </p>
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<p>You missing the point. Results are not solely determined by credentials (grades/extracurrics/internships). Ross kids have an easier time because they can drop their resume on iMpact and automatically be considered for a finite number of interview slots. Those LSA students with similar credentials need to network in order to EVEN BE CONSIDERED for interviews. I have been over this topic so many times.</p>
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<p>No. You clearly have poor reading skills. I specifically said “LSA student” not “I”.</p>
<p>I was able to network my way into Summer Analyst interviews with a much greater level of effort than was put in by my friends in Ross with less than or equal credentials.</p>
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<p>Ross vs. LSA and Harvard vs. Ross is not apples to apples. I am well aware that having a business program in and of itself doesn’t make on more or less recruited. HYPS and the like are obviously recruited more than Ross students. But Ross students are significantly more recruited than LSA.</p>
<p>I do not want nieve freshmen to be mislead. You can get interviews, but you have to put in the work.</p>
<p>Your point about Psych majors vs. Econ/Math majors is well taken. If the decision maker feels the way you do about a certain major (which I believe many do) than they will not be impressed. </p>
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<p>If these decision makers have any relationship with Ross they know about the 4.4 thing and that the GPAs are inflated. </p>
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<p>^I didn’t think you understood me the first time so I reframed what I was saying in terms of your own experience, which worked because you responded with an anecdote. </p>
<p>And at that anecdote I realized that we weren’t on the same page. </p>
<p>You’re arguing that Ross>LSA in that being in Ross guarantees you eligibility to a select amount of interviews for pretty good jobs. I’m arguing that the OP shouldn’t let the fear of not finding a great internship/job deter him from LSA, because he can find something just as good as those select interviews or better with effort. You agree with me that the best job you were offered you found on your own merits and could have found it (or something of a similar caliber) if you were not in Ross. I agree with you that getting an interview in general requires less (virtually zero) effort in Ross. </p>
<p>We’ve been saying the same thing, basically, and didn’t know it.</p>
<p>True. Likely doesn’t outweigh their bias toward Ross though, since the d-makers likely went to Ross.</p>
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<p>No, he shouldnt be afraid, per se. But if job is #1 priority (as opposed to utility gained by studying a different subject), one should go to Ross to maximize your chances. I am not in Ross; most of my interviews were due to my own effort.</p>
<p>" But if job is #1 priority (as opposed to utility gained by studying a different subject), one should go to Ross to maximize your chances."</p>
<p>I’d figure I’d be just as well off if I go to a good MBA school though, right? </p>
<p>Also, reading the thread, by networking do you basically mean getting someone to give you the contact information for the job postings? Or is more involved? Like what have you done to network?</p>
<p>Well that’s partially true, but the challenge is to get into good MBA programs. To do so you will want to get the best work experience possible prior to applying (i.e. after undergrad). Since the best companies recruit at Ross you will be more likely to get a better job coming out of Ross.</p>
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<p>No, lol. That requires zero effort and is taken as given.</p>
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<p>Networking is leveraging connections, meeting as many people in the industry as you can, and trying to use your interpersonal skills to land interviews/jobs. For internship recruiting, I reached out to the connections I had as well as attending many information sessions at Ross to meet as many people as I could.</p>
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<p>For a brief “how to network”, see above. Examples of ECs are literally any organizations that have some sort of leadership structure, whose officers have responsibilities overseeing/planning/executing certain tasks. Those who are in a position to decide to grant interviews are looking for competency. What have you done in the past that indicates you could deliver for the firm? It’s a good idea to pick ECs that are related to the industry you’re aiming for to show you have in interest in the business (body of your resume), but important to also be involved in unrelated activities to show you’re well-rounded (this could be something as simple as participating in IM sports or a philanthropic organization – key for the “other interests/activities” portion of your resume).</p>