<p>As a sophomore with a 3.8 in LSA (undeclared, approaching 70 credits), am I better off majoring in econ/stats graduating in 4 years and maybe going to grad school/obtain a modest job or apply to Ross and take a 5th year at Michigan? I'm not the most motivated person, but I try to study as much as possible and I'm involved in a few extracurriculars. As far as career path or what to do I have no idea what I'm doing, but business (Ross), econ, or stats would be where my interests lie. Any advice or ideas would be appreciated...</p>
<p>Major in econ/stats and apply to Ross for an MBA if you still want to pursue business.</p>
<p>You are maintaining a 3.8 GPA and you don’t consider yourself a “motivated” person! LOL! </p>
<p>Let me tell you, a 3.8 Econ/Stats major from Michigan will pretty good career options. I landed jobs with major IBanks with a GPA slightly under 3.5. Most of my friends with 3.7+ GPAs were landing jobs with major MCs and IBs. Some were even getting jobs at the World Bank and IMF. With such a GPA, you will also have virtually unlimited graduate school options, including top 10 Law School, top PhD programs in their major field or top 10 MBA program acceptances down the line. </p>
<p>I would stay the course and maintain that impressive GPA. At the same time, start applying for internships.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I beg to differ. You were at Michigan a long time ago and times have clearly changed. I just wrote a post responding to “econ internships”, and to reiterate what I said, Econ or Stats, or a combination of the two, will NOT COME EVEN CLOSE to giving you the opportunities that Ross students have. They have the top banks and consulting firms dropped into their lap. If you’re not in Ross, you will have to network 1,000 times harder, have a stellar GPA and great extracurrics/work experience (work experience definitely helps the most) if you do Econ and want to have access to the interview opportunities that Ross students have. You have to get interviews completely on your own; you cannot drop for them/bid for them like Ross students can. And what incentive does a company have to set up an “off the record” interview for you when they already have dozens of good-looking resumes coming from Ross students?</p>
<p>As far as top 10 law schools, you didn’t mention the LSAT at all, which is weighted the most in your application. Of course having a 3.8 from UM will position you for top 10 law schools, but you’ll have to come through on the LSAT as well.</p>
<p>As far as top 10 MBA admissions go, the focus is FAR more on your work experience than your undergraduate transcript (there’s the GMAT as well). And what will set you up for better job opportunities coming out of college? ROSS.</p>
<p>It sucks, but it’s the fact of the matter. The value of the education of an Econ/Stats degree is as good if not FAR BETTER than a Ross degree, but Ross just has the ties to companies. It’s as simple as that. B-school students would admit it too.</p>
<p>“Alexandre, I beg to differ. You were at Michigan a long time ago and times have clearly changed. I just wrote a post responding to “econ internships”, and to reiterate what I said, Econ or Stats, or a combination of the two, will NOT COME EVEN CLOSE to giving you the opportunities that Ross students have. They have the top banks and consulting firms dropped into their lap. If you’re not in Ross, you will have to network 1,000 times harder, have a stellar GPA and extracurrics/work experience doing Econ to have access to the interview opportunities that Ross student’s have.”</p>
<p>Exaggeration. all you need is an above average resume.</p>
<p>“And what incentive does a company have to set up an “off the record” interview for you when they already have dozens of good-looking resumes coming from Ross students?”</p>
<p>Funny. The BBs that don’t post outside of Ross added me to the closed lists manually. Want to ask what their incentive is?</p>
<p>my point is: dont spread doom and gloom just because you are not good enough to get first rounds.</p>
<p>Do not delude the OP using evidence from what is surely an obviously rare case to which you refer.</p>
<p>" Do not delude the OP using evidence from what is surely an obviously rare case to which you refer. "</p>
<p>Actually it’s not just me. I know a couple econ kids and a couple engineering kids who are consistently added to the closed lists for “Ross-only” banks. In fact, it’s always the same couple of kids because we are always added to the end of the schedule and run into each other for every single firm. So if you resume is good enough, it doesnt matter where you are from. The result is consistent.</p>
<p>You seem to not understand the law of large numbers. I am not speaking to extremes. Of course if you have a stellar resume companies will notice you. But it is just outright false that, ALL ELSE EQUAL, Ross does not set you up for SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER SUCCESS.</p>
<p>The thing is bearcats, I don’t really think my resume would stand out that much in comparison to Ross students or top econ majors. I mean I do have a leadership position in a club and a marketing internship with a local company, but in comparison to my friends in Ross and LSA Econ majors, it’s not much. They are more heavily involved in professional fraternities, Greek life, and honor societies. The only trump card I really have is my grades. In my opinion, if a recruiter looked at my resume I think they would just think (wow another Asian with good grades and minimal leadership/work experience, but no creativity or innovation). This is the reason why I’m considering applying to Ross and taking a 5th year because of the supposedly powerful connections with major companies. I might be wrong though, but that’s my thought process. You guys clearly know more about the whole interview process with internships than I do which is why I made the thread asking for your advice lol</p>
<p>“You seem to not understand the law of large numbers. I am not speaking to extremes. Of course if you have a stellar resume companies will notice you. But it is just outright false that, ALL ELSE EQUAL, Ross does not set you up for SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER SUCCESS.”</p>
<p>and my point is, why do you think you have to be stopped by road blocks? Why not create your own path, do something special and get noticed?
In fact, I have to argue, coming from a non-business background help me once I get the interviews. The interviewer for MS basically said, “how refreshing to finally see someone not from a ‘trade school’ and started talking about how they need more people with different mindset than ‘business robots’ (his diction)” Face it, it’s hard to stand out as a ross kids amongst another 20 ross kids. but it’s easy to be remembered as one of the only two engineers/econ major that was interviewed</p>
<p>That’s exactly what I’m talking about. The OP does not have the credentials to get recognized (or be able to BID FOR INTERVIEWS) as a non-Ross student. Ramen, if money and the extra time is not an issue, you will unequivocally have better opportunities taking the extra year. I also highly recommend you use your extra time to improve upon your extracurrics and try to land some relevant work experience during your summers.</p>
<p>Bearcats, I agree with you. In the interviews I was able to land, I received the same responses. But the difficulty is getting to those interviews, and to get there you need the resume credentials first (prior relevant work experience, mainly).</p>
<p>glad we can agree on something</p>
<p>I don’t really think there can be disagreement on anything I said. Averages vs. extremes buddy. You were arguing based on the assumption that one has a good resume (as in prior relevant work experience) and I was trying to present the situation of the average person.</p>
<p>giants, I graduated 14 years ago, not 40 years ago! LOL! Times have not changed that much. I still know very senior HR people at ma couple of major private equity firms, and several IBs and MCs and we often talk about campus recruitment. The recurring theme regarding Michigan is that Ross remains one of the top hunting grounds for most of those firms, but LSA and Engineering are also tapped. Those recruiters aren’t going to miss the thousands of very talented students on campus just because they aren’t part of Ross. I also still have many family friends and relatives attending Michigan today (between 2000 and 2010), several majoring in Econ and the majority enrolled in either LSA or Engineering. Those that really want(ed) jobs with IBanks or consulting firms and had the grades (3.3+ in Engineering and 3.5+ in LSA) had little trouble finding jobs. Most of them did not care for such a professional track mind you, and the OP has not indicated that he wishes to pursue such a career, but if he did, with a 3.8 GPA in Economics and Statistics from Michigan, he would certainly be in a good position. No guarantees, but the odds are certainly on his side. </p>
<p>This said, I will agree that Ross is more streamlined in helping students find internships and jobs. That’s what business schools do, and Ross is arguably the #2 BBA program in the nation. Contrary to what many on CC will say, Ross is generally considered in the second group of campuses that major BB IBanks recruit from, the first group being Harvard, Wharton and maybe Princeton. So it is obviously going to be more effective than LSA and the CoE at helping students find those types of jobs.</p>
<p>As for Law school and MBA programs, I definitely agree that the LSAT (in the case of Law schools) and work experience (in the case of MBA programs) are important factors. But honestly, how many 3.8 Econ/Stats majors do you know bombed the LSAT? The majority would probably get a 165 without breaking a sweat and should be able to breack the 170 with a little bit of effort. A 3.8 GPA at Michigan with a 168 on the LSAT should get a student into a top 10 Law school. Heck, back in my days, a 3.8 Michigan students did not have to take the LSAT to apply to Michigan Law school. And same goes for work experience…the majority of 3.8 Econ majors will have little trouble finding a good job and succeeding at that job. Again, there are not certainties in life, but odds are, in most cases, a 3.8 GPA from Michigan will get you far.</p>
<p>14 years ago is a LONG TIME in financial industry years, which is what I was getting at. Glass-Steagall was still intact and “At the start of the new century, says Cooley, everyone wanted to be a dot-com millionaire, and Goldman Sachs (GS) of all places was having a tough time filling interview slots.” (<a href=“http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jan2010/bs20100125_345247_page_3.htm[/url]”>http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jan2010/bs20100125_345247_page_3.htm</a>)</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is the odds are stacked largely against you, all else equal. They are not on his side at all, even with a 3.8, if he does not have prior relevant internship experience. Might I add, I am mainly referring to banks. McKinsey posts on LSA, which provides for equal opportunity (and speaks to the quality of the firm). </p>
<p>More streamlined? That’s a helluvan understatement. And I am well aware that Ross is considered “2nd tier” to the bulge bracket, which go to HYPS and Wharton first. </p>
<p>I agree with you to some extent on the LSAT bit. Stats majors for sure; that is a difficult major. But you can coast to a 3.8 in Econ by taking some pretty easy classes (i.e. 300 levels and easy 400 levels after 401 & 402. You can even have Stats 350 fulfill the stats requirement). Oh, the 3.8 thing still holds for Mich students applying to UM Law School.</p>
<p>A 3.8 in Econ is viewed in pretty good light, but without relevant work experience the odds are stacked against you when applying to banks.</p>
<p>You are correct Giants, the odds of landing a “choice” job at an IBank are never good. Ross is blessed, but even people I knew at top universities like Cornell and Georgetown struggled landing jobs with major IBanks. There is a lot of demand and very few openings. All I was saying is that a 3.8 GPA at a top university like Michigan in a quant major such as Econ and Statistics will open doors.</p>
<p>That’s valid. But the point I am trying to make is recruiting, and thus opportunities, are far better at Ross, all else equal.</p>
<p>Oh, and I glanced over this, but I must respond to it: the bulge bracket banks CERTAINLY DO miss the thousands of Econ students at Michigan. I’m here, right now, and I’m watching it happen.</p>
<p>And private equity firms HARDLY recruit undergrads, and the few they do consider have SOLID investment banking internship experience (it is well known that PE firms require substantial financial modeling skills in their potential Analysts/Associates, which is why they go to banks for their applicants).</p>
<p>“All I was saying is that a 3.8 GPA at a top university like Michigan in a quant major such as Econ and Statistics will open doors.”</p>
<p>There’s nothing quant about undergrad econ. Graduate econ (which is almost an applied math major itself) is a different story.</p>