<p>“Berkeley and other gov school don’t belong in the list. Sure they have bright students there, average SAT for the freshman is somewhere around 2160 (which is not that impressive btw)”…etc.</p>
<p>That’s pretty funny coming from someone who can’t write English all that well as the rest of your post amply demonstrates.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, you’re being way too generous. Both Berkeley and Michigan’s average SAT is approximately 2000.</p>
<p>If their transfers were required to submit SAT scores, the average would be even lower.</p>
<p>1) Brown University
2) California Institute of Technology
3) Carnegie Mellon University
4) Columbia University
5) Cornell University
6) Dartmouth College
7) Duke University
8) Emory University
9) Georgetown University
10) Harvard University
11) Johns Hopkins University
12) Massachusetts Institute of Technology
13) New York University
14) Northwestern University
15) Princeton University
16) Rice University
17) Stanford University
18) University of Chicago
19) University of Pennsylvania
20) University of Rochester
21) Tufts University
22) Vanderbilt University
23) Wake Forest University
24) Washington University in St. Louis
25) Yale University</p>
<p>Honorable mention: Brandeis University, University of Southern California</p>
<p>
They’re in alphabetical order.</p>
<p>nyccard: sorry to hert ur felins with badd spelin</p>
<p>but it doesn’t change the fact that Berkeley is not that good of a school. And most people try to raise it’s undergrad reputation by tauting a few of it’s grad school success. did I step on a little bear paw, nyccard???</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Reread my post.</p>
<p>First of all, I am not the one who criticized your spelling. </p>
<p>Second, I am AGREEing with you. I am saying that Berkeley and Michigan are overrated because their SAT scores are even lower than you say they are. (2000 < 2160)</p>
<p>Third, I do NOT go to Berkeley.</p>
<p>I thought my post was fairly straightforward. Guess not.</p>
<p>LOL! Love how all these threads evolve into discussions (arguments mostly) about Berkeley and Michigan. The ironic thing is that these top public universities weren’t even brought up by the so called “partisans” or “pom-pom waving, rah rah cheerleaders” of the esteemed universities…it was brought up by a Hopkins “partisan”…</p>
<p>One can argue this til the cows come home.</p>
<p>For me, the keys are:
<p>Tier 1 (listed alphabetically)
Caltech
Harvard
MIT
Princeton
Stanford
Yale</p>
<p>Tier 2 (listed alphabetically
Brown
Carnegie Mellon
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Duke
Emory
Georgetown
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Rice
U Chicago
U Penn
Vanderbilt
Wash U</p>
<p>Tier 3 (listed alphabetically)
Boston College
Brandeis
Lehigh
NYU
Tufts
U Rochester
USC
Wake Forest
Tulane
U Miami</p>
<p>Quick note about my ranking: I did not include COLLEGES. I ONLY included US schools. </p>
<p>Criteria: Reputation, Academic Excellence (students, prof’s), Location (preference to cities for me), Housing, Student:Faculty ratio, Holistic Judgement, breadth of available majors/concentrations (hence purely Technical schools: MIT, Caltech; did not make the list as they are primarly focused in a few areas of study) [Although arguably MIT could be included by virtue of the Harvard-MIT exchange – but should I then include Julliard?]</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard U</li>
<li>Princeton U</li>
<li>Yale U</li>
<li>Columbia U</li>
<li>Stanford U</li>
<li>UChicago</li>
<li>UPenn</li>
<li>Brown U</li>
<li>Cornell U</li>
<li>JHU</li>
<li>Wesleyan U*</li>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>Duke U</li>
<li>Tufts U</li>
<li>Georgetown U</li>
<li>Emory U</li>
<li>Northwestern U</li>
<li>USC</li>
<li>Vanderbilt</li>
<li>Tulane U</li>
<li>Notre Dame U</li>
<li>Washington U -St. Louis</li>
<li>Rice U</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon U</li>
<li>Boston U</li>
</ol>
<ul>
<li>Surprised? I was that nobody even mentioned it (great Astronomy, poli sci, art, gov, history, psychology, solid in sciences, impressive grad school matriculation, superb learning ethos, conveniently located between NYC and Boston, large enough to be a real U, but small enough to retain the cozy college feel) I’ll admit though, I have artificially inflated it up, but def in top 25. Also I give credit to different things than most people… </li>
</ul>
<p>Honorable Mentions:
Brandeis U, GWU, Northeastern U, Wake Forest, Lehigh, UWash-Seattle. </p>
<p>COLLEGES:
Dartmouth, Haverford, Amherst, Oberlin, Middlebury, Reed, Vassar, Swarthmore (not Universities but would place in the top half of this list if I counted them as such) Bard, Bennington (Idem but bottom half)</p>
<p>
That’s because Wesleyan is a LAC. A LAC with graduate programs like Bryn Mawr and Washington & Lee, but still a LAC.</p>
<p>I find it highly amusing you consider Dartmouth a LAC even though it has double the population of Wesleyan, a medical school, a business school, and multiple PhD programs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No. Wesleyan is not a real UNIVERSITY, in the sense that we usually reserve for the term. Even if it were (mis-)classified as such, it wouldn’t be ranked in the top 25, let alone #11. It may be one of the top dozen or so LACs though.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Uh, Dartmouth is not only a college. It’s a university even though it’s called Dartmouth College.</p>
<p>While Dartmouth “College” isn’t necessarily a full-fledged research university, it is still more of one than Wesleyan “University.”</p>
<p>
Glad to see Alexandre’s influence is starting to rub off on you, hawkette. ;)</p>
<p>I agree with Barty13 (@post #28) to the extent that Wesleyan is a useful tipping point in the LAC/university fulcrum; too far on one side and you lose the sense of community; too far in the other direction and you lose the sharp edge that one identifies with a major university.</p>
<p>@#31, #32. </p>
<p>I was debating Dartmouth, because although arguably Dartmouth is considered de facto a University it has remained “college” even after switching to “university” it switched back. Wesleyan (from what the adcom told me) prefers to be called University now that it has the title. </p>
<p>In any case I would put Dartmouth in the top tier. Probably right above JHU and Wes if not higher.</p>
<p>^^^it’s actually more complicated than that; neither Dartmouth nor Wesleyan have ever “switched” names. They simply evolved into what they’ve each become over the years. The terms university and college were interchangeable until the late nineteenth century when one began to be associated more with graduate research than the other.</p>
<p>woops, sorry card.</p>
<p>rjkofnovi is the person who thinks Cal belongs with the top privates even though the average Cal freshman SAT is 2000</p>
<p>Tier One:
Princeton, Chicago, Yale, Harvard, Northwestern, Stanford, MIT, Columbia.</p>
<p>Tier Two:
Penn, CalTech, Duke, Cornell, Dartmouth, Juilliard, USMA-West Point, USNA-Annapolis, Curtis School of Music, Williams, Amherst & Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Tier Three:
Johns Hopkins, Brown, WashUStL, Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Michigan, UCal-Berkeley, USAFA-Colorado Springs & Wellesley.</p>
<p>Tier One schools are, for the most part, in line with size of endowment in addition to, also for the most part, average SAT scores of matriculated students & academic rigor.
In my opinion, CalTech is too small, too specialized & too focused on graduate students/research to be in the top tier.
Things change significantly if looking at graduate schools in which case Michigan & UCal-Berkeley should be higher tiered. But this grouping is focusing only on first degree students.</p>
<p>Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Stanford
Penn
Columbia
MIT
Dartmouth
Cal Tech
Brown
Chicago
Cornell
Duke
JHU
UC Berkeley
Georgetown
Notre Dame
UMichigan
Rice
Northwestern
Emory
WUSTL
Vanderbilt
Tufts
UVA</p>
<p>
Please read the thread title before typing.</p>
<p>9 of the institutions you listed are not classified as universities by the Carnegie system, and 5 are not private.</p>
<p>
Again, read the thread title. It’s not that complicated.</p>