Information Overload!! Assist with a starter college list please!

Parents Forum
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<p>I have been combing cc for months and have read several college guides, however now I feel more confused than when I started!</p>

<p>S is a junior so it is time to start assembling a potential college list for in depth research and possible visits. His current list looks like a cut and paste from USNWR, so please help build a more insightful selection.</p>

<p>I don't want to make this post too long to start with, but here is some basic information on preferences:</p>

<p>*Geography: Prefers closer to home (central NY), wants seasons, no excessive heat, doesn't mind cold. No NYC or similar urban environments, and must have a distinct campus. </p>

<p>*Size: Nothing too small, but that is hard to define-probably 3000+, and BIG is okay. In between is the preference.</p>

<p>*Vibe: Intellectual, serious student body without being socially awkward. “Fun” that is not alcohol centered. School spirit up to an extent-not an athlete or a sports fan but would enjoy participating in game day. Not interested in greek life at this point. More conservative than liberal. Heavy Ralph Lauren presence appreciated but not required :)</p>

<p>*Major: Geosciences/Earth Science/Atmospheric Science. NOT Environmental Science. Has no real vision of a career path, so a wide array of courses in various disciplines (Hydrology? Oceanography? Meteorology?) would be best rather than a school with a cookie cutter Geology program. Need great field/ semester abroad options. He is very interested in history, religion, politics, literature, music, foreign language although he has been empathic for years that he intends to major in science...so although he balks at liberal arts colleges I think they deserve consideration.</p>

<p>*Interests: Top notch a cappella opportunities and a nearby Lutheran church are high priorities..”</p>

<p>***Diversity: Numbers are not important, however it is imperative that he find an environment where he will not be expected, by African-Americans OR Caucasians to “sit at the black table.”</p>

<p>Quick Stats: Public school, poorly ranked, ineffective guidance, no national ecs or competitions available, 7 APs, little or no history of acceptance at top schools. 4.0 uw gpa I suppose-school has numerical grading and lowest grade was one 95 freshman year. Possible Val, although rank is top secret until announced senior year, class of about 350. Most rigorous course load-above and beyond. 5's on both AP exams last year(will take all 7). ACT 34, SAT 2290 760R/770M/760W, just took for the 1st time and no current plans to retake either. So far SAT II, World History, 750. Solid ecs but nothing monumental. Middle class, African-American.</p>

<p>Thanks for taking the time to help!</p>

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<p>Price limit?</p>

<p>If low cost is necessary, he should have many options based on 4.0 HS GPA and his test scores. Of course, they need to be checked against the criteria you list above (the geographic restriction may be most limiting, though).</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation-56.html#post16465904[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation-56.html#post16465904&lt;/a&gt; (if any National Merit status)</p>

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<p>Cornell is an obvious candidate. </p>

<p>Yes, there is plenty of alcohol and a big Greek scene, but there’s also a sizable portion of the student body that has no interest in fraternities/sororities and doesn’t have lives that revolve around drinking. </p>

<p>The major he would want to investigate is Earth and Atmospheric Sciences. [Academics</a> - Earth and Atmospheric Sciences - Cornell Engineering](<a href=“http://www.eas.cornell.edu/eas/academics/]Academics”>http://www.eas.cornell.edu/eas/academics/) An interesting thing about this major is that you can pursue it within any of three undergraduate colleges – Arts and Sciences, Agriculture and Life Sciences, or Engineering. Given his other academic interests, Arts and Sciences might seem to be the best choice. But on the other hand, given that he’s a New York State resident and tuition is lower in Agriculture and Life Sciences for NY residents, that might be worth considering as well.</p>

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<p>He sounds like my son and his interests and stats are almost identical. I think he should apply to Brown [ which was one of DS’s final 3 choices] where he would find what he wants, and which also has a very fine Geology dept. It was one of DS’s final 4 choices. U of Chicago should also be strongly considered because of its Liberal arts core and strong science programs. [He could apply EA to Chicago, if he does not apply ED anywhere else, but he should definitely visit there first.]
[Currently DS is at Caltech, studying for his PhD in Geophysics[ seismology] .
MIT is also a possibility .</p>

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<p>Marian-
Thanks. Cornell is his #1 choice, and apparently a logical one in so many ways. I had the same impression of CALS-the curriculum is solid science and math and I hate to see him restrict himself in that way given his various interests. He really thinks it is the place for him, but I just want him to take a look at what else might be out there for him.</p>

<p>ucba-
I am aware of the financial realities, and I am familiar with the threads you linked. Thank you. For the purposes of the initial list I am not ruling anything out based on cost except for full freight out of state publics like William and Mary.</p>

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<p>Don’t forget the AA Students forum (under College Admissions, Speciality Topics), the Resources sticky thread is a good place to start.</p>

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<p>Then he may want to consider Arts and Sciences. And if he is admitted (which seems likely, although it’s never a sure thing), you may be able to negotiate the financial aid package a bit. Cornell can’t give merit scholarships – that’s against Ivy League rules. But they can – and sometimes do – fiddle with the components of a need-based financial aid package. If they really want a student – as I suspect will be the case with your son – it may be possible to get them to decrease the amount he’s expected to borrow and increase the scholarship portion of the package.</p>

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<p>menloparkmom-
Thanks. I agree that Brown, UC, and MIT are all worth a look. Where did your son end up for undergrad? I just read something about UC “Great Books” program and I am going to research that-it sounds exciting. Why do you specifically say that UC needs to be visited? He plans to apply to MITES this summer so if accepted that would give him the opportunity to see what MIT is really like and we could do the whole Boston round up at that time.</p>

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<p>He can apply EA to Chicago without visiting if he isn’t applying ED elsewhere. That’s what my younger son did, with the plan to visit later if he got in. It was the only school outside the NE that he applied to and it ended up being his second choice by a whisker. </p>

<p>Tufts has Earth and Ocean Science and is right size, not a big Greek presence, defined campus. Might not be as conservative as he likes, but it’s a pretty accepting community. [Department</a> of Earth and Ocean Sciences: For Prospective Students](<a href=“http://eos.tufts.edu/prospective/faqResearch.htm]Department”>http://eos.tufts.edu/prospective/faqResearch.htm)</p>

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<p>mathmom-
Thanks. For some reason Tufts has not been on the radar, but I will take a look. Maybe fear of contracting “Tuft’s Syndrome”? Sounds scary…</p>

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<p>My cousin is a weather scientist, VaTech for undergrad and U Ok for grad school. One of the things about very focused sciences (or other focused studies like, say, Lithuanian history) is that he will end up matched with only a few scattered professors. The research opportunities, tied to those researchers, will be key for a kid like yours. My daughter is going through this right now, looking more at specific professors and their research and less at the more common selection criteria.</p>

<p>So, from my limited exposure:</p>

<p>UMCP - Likely to get a decent merit scholarship, good geology program with a bustling atmospheric research lab, open to undergrad research starting freshman year.</p>

<p>Cornell - As pointed out above.</p>

<p>Probably on the list already, but Stanford seems about ideal other than “close” and “4 seasons.”</p>

<p>One other thought - the US Air Force does a lot with atmospheric science, but the commitment is a little more permanent.</p>

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<p>Perhaps Yale. Has a lot of what you described (geography, size, vibe, etc). Incredible a cappella, which includes The Whiffepoofs (est 1909) - the oldest collegiate a cappella group, I believe.</p>

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<p>U of C these days seems to care about a real “level of interest” shown by applicants. In the “good old days” before they used the Common App, when mathmom’s and my son applied, Chicago had a much higher acceptance rate [ 40% in 2005] than today - mostly because it attracted self selected students that fit the “Chicago” model.
Now, as Chicago’s “academic reputation” has been elevated by its soaring application numbers[ and USNWR rankings] , it has become for many HYPSM [Ivy level] wannabe applicants a “why not” choice for submitting an additional application.
I think Chicago could be an ideal place for your son, and as such, is worth an early visit in Oct, to let him get a “feel” for the college and students there, and which could lend “weight” to his application. Many students end up being scared off by the colleges’ self mocking tongue in cheek “where fun goes to die” reputation, which has elements of truth to it. It was dreamed up years ago to advertise that Chicago was different, and harder than typical UG colleges.</p>

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<p>UMCP means University of Maryland at College Park.</p>

<p>It’s not as far away as it might seem, and although the campus looks Southern, the feeling there is definitely not.</p>

<p>UMCP could be an interesting possibility. Big-time sports. Small Greek scene. Diverse population. Easy access to Washington, DC. Lots of honors and special interest programs for freshmen and sophomores that make the massive campus seem smaller. Most of the out-of-staters are from your part of the country – New York or New Jersey. And although the majority of students are not of your son’s caliber, a substantial minority are. UMCP offers a lot of merit scholarship money to highly qualified in-state students and therefore manages to attract a significant number of them.</p>

<p>One big plus for Maryland, as compared to private schools, is that your son would almost certainly be able to use all his AP credits to place out of annoying general education requirements, which would allow him to pursue his personal interests right away. </p>

<p>Maryland doesn’t have Early Decision, but most of the goodies (merit scholarships, places in special programs) go to people who submit their applications by the priority deadline of November 1. So if he decides to apply, he should do it early.</p>

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<p>“Where did your son end up for undergrad?”</p>

<p>My DS, for numerous reasons [ a full tuition scholarship, the presence at USC of Thomas Jordan, formally chair of Geology at MIT and founder of the Southern Calif Earthquake Center at USC, the Thorton school of Music at USC, where he could continue his piano studies if he desired, and a desire, in the end when push came to shove, to stay in Calif] decided to go to USC for his UG studies.
When he applied to college in 2006, none of today’s generous FA programs were in existence, and Chicago, which everyone thought was a “no Brainer” for acceptance for him, offered him virtually no FA along with an acceptance letter.
Dartmouth and Brown were more generous, but in the end, he could not turn down that scholarship. It was absolutely the right decision for him, as in the end, he was accepted at every grad program he applied to and is now at one of the top ranked U’s in the world.</p>

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<p>When you say Lutheran, do you mean ELCA or one of the other synods?</p>

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<p>With his stats, he will have a lot of options. He should definitely consider MIT, as it meets a lot of his requirements; namely, the majors he thinks he want, plus a very solid array of humanities courses (their history dept is well-regarded, believe it or not!), a diverse atmosphere (lots of Christians on campus, and students from a lot of different ethnic backgrounds), a great a cappella group, plenty of Ralph Lauren and LLBean, etc. The only drawback is that it is pretty urban and there is a Greek scene, but I don’t think it’s the dominant social culture on campus.</p>

<p>On a different note, you probably already know that he is likely to receive significant merit money if he applies to lower tiered schools (not too much lower, just a rung down on the selectivity ladder) that will be pretty hard to turn down, even if he does get into Cornell or MIT. Sometimes that merit money is way better than the financial aid the Ivies offer.</p>

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<p>Just curious…you would pay for a private university but would not pay OOS costs for a public university like William and Mary? Why?</p>

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<p>Something not mentioned explicitly yet is to start by finding a safety. Yes, his stats will give him a reasonable chance at a lot of super selective schools, but every student needs a safety, and the schools where his stats fall into the ranges are not safeties for anyone (many are reaches for everyone).</p>

<p>Having the safety selected first means that every candidate school can be compared against the safety, allowing quick elimination of schools less desirable than the safety (saving the time and money spent on evaluating schools and doing applications).</p>

<p>Remember that a safety must be 100% certain admission, 100% certain affordability, and academically and otherwise suitable. Be wary of using a school that considers “level of applicant’s interest” as a safety – these schools typically do not want to be anyone’s safety and may reject or waitlist high stats applicants whom they believe won’t attend.</p>

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<p>ucbalumnus-
for safeties Pitt is a top consideration…or are you thinking he needs to go even further down? In that case there is always SUNY–Albany is probably the best match for major. </p>

<p>thumper1-
From what I have found on NPCs we can expect at least some aid from privates, but W&M didn’t even offer a loan, and if I remember correctly the cost was around 50K? I didn’t mean to rule out all out of state publics-I meant the ones that cost as much as privates, yet offer no aid.</p>