<p>And I know you did not disagree that a kid should be researching schools. </p>
<p>I am likely just venting as I have had SOME students who are not exploring schools AT ALL and only the parents are and the kid is the one that needs to select schools, learn about them and will actually attend (not to mention write the all important, Why I want to attend X college essay). :)</p>
<p>I think it is nice that family friends are suggesting schools. But THEN the student needs to read about the suggested schools.</p>
<p>Rochester and Case are both small (5K) research universities in “urban-but-not-too-urban” settings, similar in my mind to Johns Hopkins (and maybe CMU) but not as competitive (admission-wise and otherwise). </p>
<p>Both have quality arts & science schools; neither are anywhere as “techie” as RPI. USNews rankings around 40ish, which isn’t bad for “safeties.” Both are known for giving merit aid.</p>
<p>Case has a larger engineering department, quirky architecture, has Mather dance studio, is across Euclid St. from Severance Hall. </p>
<p>Rochester is a lovely campus, bordered by river, cemetery, & hospital; has a tunnel system connecting the buildings which tells you something about the weather; Eastman School of Music is a division.</p>
<p>Bucknell is a LAC of about 3500 students, about 20% are in engineering. It is heavily Greek but very rural, small-town–tour guide compared to Stars Hollow from Gilmore Girls. Lafayette looks similar to Bucknell on paper, but is more in a more urban setting and is near Lehigh (haven’t seen these two yet).</p>
<p>Soozie - trust me, this young lady will research schools. That’s not the issue. This isn’t a case of “parent does everything, kid does nothing.” What my friend is asking for (and why she is asking me and by extension all of you) are for suggestions to investigate, because the GC’s can only name the “usual suspects” that, well, quite frankly, they give to any smart student. It takes no effort on the GC’s part to suggest the Ivies, Northwestern because it’s local, Vandy because sis is there, USC where parent went, etc. The suggestions that you are all giving are right on track, and exactly why I have found CC so valuable in looking for ideas for my own kids. Optimistic but realistic chance portrayals, and out-of-the-box thinking on matches and safeties. So a continued thank you to all who have chimed in.</p>
<p>MrsRef: What would U of Delaware offer that U of Illinois would not offer (at a higher price, no less?) Sincerely asking, since I don’t know anything about it and it hasn’t hit any radar screens as being an excellent OOS choice a la Michigan, Berkeley, UVA, etc. </p>
<p>Pugmadkate: I think Cornell was perceived as too big and not urban enough, but I do agree that it’s one to investigate further, thanks for the reminder.</p>
<p>NSM: It’s great to research, and this is a family who is willing and able to travel to visit schools, but when schools are a complete no-name from a midwestern perspective, it is useful to at least hear “it’s like School X” to put it in some context. That’s what I was asking for, when it comes to Dickinson, Union, et al.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: you asked for mid-sized safety that feels like Yale–that’s (IMHO) a pretty good description of Dickinson and Union. It’s an opinion based entirely on 30-year-ago visits to all three schools and on the graduates I know. Far more research is indicated.</p>
<p>My kid loved Yale, and the U of Rochester was the only safety I could get him to apply to.</p>
<p>I think this kid has a good list already. I’d consider adding Rochester and Pitt. Both are strong across a wide range of academic areas. Another thought is the University of Virginia. ( A friend’s highly energized and very bright D went to Penn and immediately got involved in competitive ballroom dance, btw.)</p>
<p>U. Richmond is a ~2700 student LAC, but with a law school that is co-located, so more total students. It is in a suburban neighborhood of the city of Richmond, which is the capital of Virginia. The campus is beautiful - I think the prettiest I’ve seen, with a lake in the middle of the campus, and the student center crossing and overlooking the lake.</p>
<p>It has a greek system (although my S liked the school in spite of that, not because of it.) Although the school is (barely) in the south, there is a large population from the northeast. The buildings looked a lot like the WashU buildings, in case they have visited there. WashU’s campus in general reminded me of U. Richmond, without the lake and with fewer trees. (We visited U. Richmond first.)</p>
<p>It is a school that has been rising in the rankings in recent years, and becoming better known - I’m not sure why. The students seemed very friendly - for example several people stopped to help us find the library while we were obviously studying the map.</p>
<p>Rochester – Visionary former president (someone I knew years ago, and married to a friend of mine) gave it a systematic makeover in the 90s, to make it smaller, more selective, more intellectual, more residential. It worked, and it has made the university a lot more popular with ambitious students who don’t live in Western New York. It’s often a safety / possible merit bargain for a student whose first choice is Yale, or Chicago, or Swarthmore, or an achievable reach for a good student with an imperfect record for some reason. A young cousin of mine just graduated from there – a faculty brat from a big Southern flagship university, whose older brothers went to Penn/Stanford grad and Vanderbilt, but who was not a candidate for that level of college. It was great. She loved it, got very intellectually excited, got focused.</p>
<p>Union – Upper Hudson Valley LAC with a distinguished history. I’m not exactly certain what its image is these days, to tell the truth. Like Colgate or Skidmore, but not as competitive to get into? It doesn’t seem to be popular around here. Pretty, I think. Not so much urban as dying industrial town – the birthplace of General Electric, but not much there besides brownfields now.</p>
<p>Dickinson – LAC in central Pennsylvania. Very regional, I think, in its draw. Largish, for a LAC. It has lots of fans, and seems to do very well in the sub-Swarthmore, sub-NESAC, sub-Hamilton/Colgate/Maine Schools tier (i.e., not quite top students). Perhaps a little more conservative and sober than many LACs, without making it all the way to conservative and sober. Not in an exciting location, to say the least. I don’t know what it would add to the OP’s list besides another safety.</p>
<p>Another vote for Bucknell. Very well known on the east coast…lots of kids from top level high schools on Long Island, Westchester and NJ suburbs go there. Good engineering program…Greek life…but not in a big city.</p>
<p>Any interest in Catholic schools? Villanova is near Philly…</p>
<p>What about University of Miami? It’s in a city…and I’ve heard that Donna E. Shalala is really raising the academic level there…</p>
<p>“Maybe if they looked at the rankings of Michigan, Wisconsin and compared it to Illinois’, they’d change their minds.”</p>
<p>I don’t have the most recent rankings at hand, but Wisconsin is exactly one spot above Illinois in last year’s ranking, NSM. So not a difference that might make someone change their mind.</p>
<p>Villanova might be worth considering. Size is about right, it’s heavily greek, has engineering as well as numerous other majors, and is located outside Philadelphia.</p>
<p>Union comes regularly to our high school’s college night - they emphasize that they have engineering plus everything else and their study abroad program and that unlike most places engineers have a study abroad program. Rochester is MUCH more popular at our school than Union - five times as many kids attend and about twice as many apply.</p>
<p>Wake Forest is a good choice. The size is right (about 4500 undergrad) and so is the location (North Carolina). Beautiful campus, top notch professors and greek life is big.</p>
<p>Wake Forest’s engineering program is a 3/2 with Vanderbilt. I’m not a fan of 3/2 programs. Five years of tuition payment and uprooting after 3 years.</p>