I got my fourth dose now, because for various reasons, I have a bunch of indoor activities I feel obliged to take part in. I’m hoping by fall there will be either a more targeted vaccine or new even better medicines.
2 Likes
1 Like
Regarding the differences between Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines, it seems that one of the studies suggested that Moderna stimulates more IgA (found in mucosal surfaces), and Pfizer stimulates more IgG and IgM (found in bloodstream). Since mucosal surfaces (in the respiratory tract) are the usual entry point for the SARS-CoV-2 virus, wouldn’t that add to the advantages of the Moderna vaccine (beyond its higher dose of mRNA) if one is choosing between it and the Pfizer vaccine either for initial vaccination, or boosting after having received only J&J or Pfizer vaccine before?
That seems to be consistent with studies that distinguished between the two that found that the Moderna vaccine retained its effectiveness for longer than the Pfizer vaccine.
I haven’t kept close tabs, but from what I’m reading having both IgG/M and IgA is advantageous, as opposed to one being superior to the other. If I started with one, I’d boost with the other. If I started with JnJ, I’d boost with Moderna, because if it’s an either/or thing with IgG/M or A, I’d choose A. Again though, that’s many years removed from immunology and cursory reading. 
1 Like
So if you want to “collect them all” (IgA, IgG/IgM, and T-cells) seems like you would follow this order:
| Initial vaccine | First booster | Second booster |
|---|---|---|
| Moderna x2 | J&J or Pfizer | Pfizer or J&J (opposite of first booster) |
| Pfizer x2 | J&J or Moderna | Moderna or J&J (opposite of first booster) |
| J&J | Moderna | Pfizer |
And then if Novavax gets approved, you get yet another one to collect… or you can go to Mexico and find more different approved vaccines there.
Note that those who got J&J are still one dose behind…
2 Likes
Tomorrow. Heading off of US soil for the first time in 2 years.
In my arsenal
- three doses of Pfizer mRNA
- Ionic Zinc acetate lozenges
- ENOVID/saNOtize nasal spray
- Glutathione supplements
- Colloidal Silver nasal spray
- NAC supplements
- CUE COVID test sytem
- a few antigen COVID test.
It’s a go!
PS. tried to delete and repost to the travel thread
…system won’t let me…oops
10 Likes
Sounds like the pilots survival checklist from Dr Strangelove:
“ Survival kit contents check. In them you’ll find: one forty-five caliber automatic; two boxes of ammunition; four days’ concentrated emergency rations; one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills; one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible; one hundred dollars in rubles; one hundred dollars in gold; nine packs of chewing gum; one issue of prophylactics; three lipsticks; three pair of nylon stockings. Shoot, a fella’ could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.”
4 Likes
You’ll be fine. I’ve flown many times, even pre-vaccine with nothing more than a good N95. Travel well!
2 Likes
Since you posted to the inside medicine thread….
Just a warning that we’re seeing patients with anemia due to copper deficiency due to zinc toxicity due to Covid causing people to go a bit overboard on the zinc. Just wanted to mention that zinc isn’t entirely non-toxic at high doses. Prior to Covid I’d seen this with zinc supplements and with occupational exposure to zinc (metal work)…I’m guessing now it’ll skew much more heavily to supplements.
7 Likes
Are you seeing similar trends with Vitamin D? I’ve heard of a few people recently that developed hypercalcemia due to “enthusiastic” vitamin D supplementation. I didn’t know this was a thing…
I’m afraid I don’t know the answer to that one specifically, sorry! Vitamin D has certainly had its ups and down in testing and supplementation over the past 15 years. You’d think there wouldn’t be “trends” in medicine like there are trends in fashion, but there was vitamin C for a while then vitamin D…almost like low and high waisted jeans lol. The one vitamin that has outlasted the others is vitamin A (meaning retinoids) as topical skin benefit for acne, wrinkles, etc.
1 Like
I’m aware of the copper/zinc issue. I use the zinc sporadically when in higher risk situations. It’s not a daily long term thing.
2 Likes
Study at University of Virginia compares IgG antibodies from various vaccines and severe cases of COVID-19 requiring hospitalization.
Main focus was Pfizer versus Moderna vaccines. IgG antibodies declined faster from Pfizer vaccination compared to Moderna vaccination. Janssen / J&J vaccination produced lower levels of IgG antibodies, but they remained steady instead of declining, though the sample size was small.
Six months after vaccination or severe cases requiring hospitalization, Pfizer vaccination recipients had significantly lower IgG antibody levels than Moderna vaccination recipients or those who had severe cases.
2 Likes
Four (compared to three) doses of Pfizer vaccine reduced breakthrough infections in health care workers in Israel:
1 Like
I’m not sure this type of comparison is apple-to-apple. They’ll likely come to a different conclusion if they at least compare 2-dose Moderna recipients with 3-dose (or more) Pfizer recipients, 3-dose Moderna recipients with 4-dose (or more) Pfizer recipients, etc.
It appears that this study evaluated cases in the first 30 days after the 4th booster (at least one week post booster), when antibodies were still high. Am I reading this correctly? I would be interested in a comparison further out. Here are some excerpts. Reduction in breakthrough infections was less than with 3rd shot.
Our data shows that the 4th BNT162b2 dose resulted in reduced breakthrough infection rates among HCWs. This reduction, similar to the findings in the Israeli elderly population, is lower than that observed after the 3rd dose.
and
Our data shows that the 4th BNT162b2 dose resulted in reduced breakthrough infection rates among HCWs in 11 hospitals. This reduction is similar to the findings in the elderly Israeli population .
Though less effective than the 3rd dose , this reduction along with a high HCWs infection rate results in a number-needed-to-vaccinate to prevent one infection of 7 to 13. Full vaccination would have decreased HCWs infection rate from 20% to between 6% and 12%.
1 Like
Our 80-something friend got covid. It was really tough on his body. Then he had a stroke, declined somewhat rapidly, and died. I feel like it is just so tricky trying to figure this whole covid/vaccine, chicken/egg, risk/benefit thing out - sigh.
(We are going with the numbers though, so my 80-something parents have had both doses, and 1 booster and will get the 2nd booster.)
1 Like
My mother had no reaction to the first 3, but with the 4th felt sick for a day and had some short-lived delirium. She has dementia but thinking she did not live at her assisted living was a definite change in mental status. (She also had COVID in Jan. 2021.)
My mother had been in bed for 8 days and was not eating. Hospice was coming in. After the 4th shot, for 4 days now, she has been downstairs for meals, doing activities, and is actually perky. Speaking of chickens, eggs, carts and horses, is it possible the booster “boosted” her health temporarily?! We are all puzzled!
4 Likes
It is probably as close to apple-to-apple as current recommendations produce, since current recommendations do not recommend that Pfizer recipients get one more dose than Moderna recipients, even though this and some other studies suggest that such a recommendation may be warranted.
The same can be said with respect to recommendations for J&J recipients, who are always one dose behind in recommendations.
Of course, it gets more complicated when people start mixing and matching different vaccines when they get boosters.
I’m in the less-is-more camp: too much of any “good” thing is bad for you. Especially when more boosters appear to be necessary now and in the future regardless of which vaccine one chooses, I personally prefer smaller doses to keep the total amount of any foreign substance in my body as low as possible.
1 Like