Inside Medicine. What Are You Seeing? [COVID-19 medical news]

So are you doing a 4th Pfizer?

I am waiting because I want to fly across country in June to visit daughter. If the shots really do wane as fast as we are reading- and we still don’t know about B and T cells- it seems that boosters need to target specific events at this point!

I can’t seem to find the raw data from the Israeli 4th dose study. Everywhere I find a 78% reduction in mortality, but that’s relative. Last I read in early Feb, the mortality rate for unvaccinated patients was 9.7/100,00. For vaccinated and boosted patients it was 0.1/100,000. So a boost cuts that by an additional 3/4. I’m underwhelmed. I don’t feel like I need yet another intervention if my mortality risk is already one in a million. The argument that it protects against long Covid is specious. The protection against any level of disease is very fleeting. If something comes out that is different, say a nasal option, or an effective option against multi variants, I’d certainly say yes. For now, I’m with you @1NJParent. I’m good enough with 3 doses.

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Interesting possibility:

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No, I haven’t. I’m saving it so I can do it before my next (risky?) long trip if there’s another wave then.

I follow the advice on an immunologist who says get the booster. I trust the medical professionals’ advice more than my feelings.

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That’s what I’m doing unless there’s a newer version. I did fly multiple times pre-vaccine with prescription safety glasses and a N95 without a hitch.

This is not an answer it on a college forum question. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: Each of us have unique health issues. I’m thin, don’t smoke, and am not hypertensive or diabetic. At age 59, my risk adjustment with another dose is minimal. Others vary.

I will say, as one, too many healthcare providers look at that impressive relative risk number and don’t do the backwards math I did to get real risk. Relative risk adjustments need to be put into clinical context. Something statistically very significant, can be meh clinically.

Like @eyemgh, I’m also not in any high risk group. If I were, I’d certainly take it into consideration. The problem has always been to tailor different messages to different groups. People tend to like simple, direct and uniform messaging, but it may be less than optimal.

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@INJParent, I meant, if you have a 4th, will it be a 4th Pfizer?

I am medically vulnerable, as is my 95 year old mother (but she just has a booster) as is the daughter I am visiting.

But I am waiting until I am maybe 3 weeks before flying across the country. I do feel pretty safe in airports with N95 and glasses though. Hoping to hear more info on this decision.

I am in a study, as I have said before, and have an antibody test at the end of the month. Johns Hopkins previously only reported >2500 but has the ability now to report up to >25,000. Before my first booster I was only 1078 and after booster have been >2500 at two weeks, one month, and 3 months. Six months is coming up.

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Yes, in my case. Others may disagree, but I don’t think Moderna offers the kind of vaccine “diversity” that will make any difference.

For comparison, does anyone have any idea what our risk of dying in any particular car trip is? It has to be small - very small - but I still wear a seatbelt every single time. My odds are simply better that way.

It’s even smaller on airplanes, but I wear them there too.

Unless one has an actual problem with the vaxxes, I’m going to treat them the same way - better odds - though I’m still timing it so they’re at their best when we’re at our greatest risk.

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Agree that Pfizer and Moderna do not really have much vaccine diversity. Someone in the US wanting vaccine diversity should want at least one dose of Pfizer or Moderna and at least one dose of J&J.

Of course, people who initially got J&J because it was the first available to them are one dose behind, so a second booster for them would only “catch up” to three doses that everyone else has by now.

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Another mRNA booster or not? - by Katelyn Jetelina has some discussion and pointers to papers on fourth doses in Israel. The linked paper at https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2202542 says that “Along with previous data showing the superiority of a third dose to a second dose,4 our results suggest that maximal immunogenicity of mRNA vaccines is achieved after three doses and that antibody levels can be restored by a fourth dose. … Thus, a fourth vaccination of healthy young health care workers may have only marginal benefits. Older and vulnerable populations were not assessed.”

In other words, for healthy young people, doses 4+ of the Pfizer vaccine (since study was in Israel that used almost all Pfizer vaccine) do not have greater effect than dose 3, but recency of the most recent dose 3+ matters in terms of antibody levels. I.e. it is optimal to have your dose 3+ just before a high risk time period (either in terms of general surge in infections, or your personal activity being high risk at the time, like traveling to a place with more virus circulating around and less use of mitigations), although timing that is not always obvious.

It also leaves open the question of mixed (i.e. some mRNA, some J&J) vaccines over three or more doses.

That’s been my take, although I haven’t been digging deeply. Thanks.

The decision on mixing is a tough one. Hoping for more info on that.

It seems almost comical to envision getting a booster before a wedding or a trip (In my case) but that is what I am looking at as are many others, apparently.

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She is the epidemiologist I follow who recommends people over 50 get the second booster unless there’s a medical reason not to.

Yes but when? If antibodies fade as fast as we are hearing…

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YLE at Fourth Dose Q&A - by Katelyn Jetelina has the following:

  • “If you’re eligible, get your booster. Does a healthy 50 year-old adult need to rush and get one tomorrow? No. But I would put it on your to-do list. The older you are, the higher priority it should be on your to-do list. The future is uncertain, and the benefits of vaccines continue to outweigh the risks.”
  • “If you had the first booster and a confirmed Omicron infection (i.e. positive antigen test or PCR test), there’s really very little need to get a fourth dose. Vaccine + infection is called “hybrid immunity” and over 20 studies have shown this works fantastic due to complimentary and broad protection”
  • Timing is difficult. I would caution against trying to time a booster right before a wave. Like Dr. Bob Watcher said, it would be like trying to time the stock market. We know that this virus continues to mutate and a variant of concern could pop up. We also know that boosters take time to work to their full potential. Finding a timing sweet spot of boosting before a wave is possible, but potentially risky with not much added benefit.”

Of course, timing may be less difficult if you are basing it on your personal activities, rather than trying to predict whether (for example) a BA.2 possible surge will actually hit your area soon.

Yes, she makes it pretty clear.