<p>Thanks HPFan, but I’m a dude… :/</p>
<p>But to respond, the counselors at my HS do have a ton of students, but my counselor does know my family somewhat well so hopefully she can explain things a bit. Also, I am going to apply to public colleges like UCB and UCLA so there won’t be letters of rec.</p>
<p>About my mother: she is doing well now and is now cancer-free (although she is still facing pretty minor problems).</p>
<p>I am just wondering how much weight will be put on these types of things if I base my essay around it and for colleges that require letters of rec., then counselor explaining it a bit also.</p>
<p>EDIT: Often the GCs will mention these sorts of things, whether or not the kid included details- to give the colleges a picture of what you had to overcome- or the special triumphs. It’s ok to discuss this with her, especially if it’s important to you that she mentions it. If no rec is required, she may be able to get the info to them, nonetheless.</p>
<p>Adcoms I know do consider these factors. It can’t forgive a too-low gpa or some other issue, but the schools I know try to take the challenges into consideration. </p>
<p>In the end, make what seems to you- and your GC- to be your best decisions. You’ve probably seen all the back-and-forth on this thread about essays and what matters. So you may know my position: try to show your strengths, despite the adversities. Best wishes. And…go Bruins!</p>
<p>Fastsauce said:</p>
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<p>I went through extensive cancer surgery during my son’s senior year Fall. I was in the hospital twice for over a month and it was far enough away (and he had school obligations) that I only saw him about once a week. Fortunately, as I explained above, I had developed a fairly organized filing system for the schools that he was interested in. By that time I believe that he had finished his essays, although he continued to “tweak” them. But the rest of the applications he had to finish himself, including all of the small essay or short answer questions.</p>
<p>He did not use my cancer surgery as the subject of either essay (and I had been through two earlier bouts in his fifth grade and eighth grade years). He did mention it briefly in one small essay question, I think about how he was prepared to deal with college away from home. IIRC, it was something about how he was relatively suddenly without any real help in completing his applications, scheduling auditions, interviews, meeting special time deadlines for certain colleges, and how this made him more organized. It was not an important essay.</p>
<p>Colleges are much more forgiving of earlier problems with grades rather than late in your HS career. It sounds as if most of yours were early, but I’m sure it would be helpful if somehow it was mentioned as part of your application, preferably by someone other than you. I just don’t think that it is helpful to make it part of your main essay(s) because it then sounds like you are making excuses.</p>
<p>And HPFan13, I, for one, did not respond earlier because fastsauce’s question had little to do with this thread and probably should have been started as a new thread. Fewer parents will see his question because of where he posted it. He also could have said that he applying to colleges in the UC system as part of a new thread. As I understand, the UC schools have their own rules and how he can bring this to the schools attention appears to be difficult. If the UC schools are purely numbers driven, they may not care “why” his grades were not as good early in HS.</p>
<p>Fastsauce, sorry!!! I wasn’t sure so I put “she”. :0) I’m glad you are getting answers also because you deserve them!!! Good luck with all of the writing 
Lookingforward… You are amazing to me
Hat, thanks for responding also!!! I just thought it was so sad that someone’s kid was asking for help but only one adult responded. I read how they helped their own but not someone elses when they asked for help! Sometimes it seems some parents are so busy doing all for their own that that forget to help the others near by. I guess it’s because I come from a big family or something, I’m not sure. I just think others shouldn’t be ignored if you are able to help in someday. Here all that was needed was some small answer. Thanks Hat for helping Fastsauce! I didn’t want to come back to this thread because of how the parents were acting. You and Lookingforward did a nice thing :)</p>
<p>I thought that these bits of insight from Grinnell’s website might be of interest. </p>
<p>"Roughly 50% of our decision is based on your high school transcript — GPA, class rank, grades, the rigor of your program, and how well you took advantage of the opportunities available to you.</p>
<p>Approximately 25% is based on standardized test scores (ACT or SAT — we accept either), and 25% of our decision is based on promise of contribution (extracurricular activities, essay, recommendations, and an interview if you had one)."</p>
<p>And this: “As such, we view your standardized test scores and high school academic record as important barometers of your potential academic record at Grinnell. But we also look at your personal statement, high school extracurricular involvement, interview, and campus visit. We want to see if you have that special combination of intellectual commitment and personal spark that makes a Grinnellian.”</p>
<p>Grinnell also has an interesting take on the difference between how an ED and an RD candidate are looked at: “The smaller size of the Early Decision applicant pool gives the admission staff time to focus on understanding a student’s actual “fit” with Grinnell. In contrast, during Regular Decision, the process tends to focus more on a student’s relative competitiveness with other applicants to the College.” </p>
<p>And finally, there’s this, where they talk about getting to know the school: “In the end, getting a good “gut” feeling about being at an institution is just as important as are all the well-reasoned and statistical rationales typically considered in making a good decision.” My son is a very happy first-year at Grinnell, and this last point is really how he made his decision about where to attend! We tried doing a spreadsheet, but in the end, the place where he felt “most at home” won out.</p>
<p>He did not visit the campus until after he visited, and did not interview (although he did put in a request for an alumni interview), but Grinnell’s short essay gave him an opportunity to show that he had a good sense of what the college was about. So, he “demonstrated interest” in that way, but was not at a disadvantage by not being able to get out there beforehand.</p>
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<p>HPFan13, since you are a very recent poster, you should be forgiven for being unaware of the dynamics of this forum. I do, howewer, think that you should not insist along the same lines as your comments are really uncalled for. Fwiw, many of the parents who have participated in this thread have an extremely long history of helping others, and mostly helping complete strangers. As far as helphing their own and not others, simply think that the mere fact of coming to a public board to exchange their views is hardly the same as helping their own chidlren, or friends. </p>
<p>Further, as somone posted, when people start a thread about personal dilemmas or problems, they do see plenty of answers. On the other hand, many conversations, despite not including direct help of an individual student, offer plenty of “hidden” advice for future readers and lurkers. Threads where people offer DIVERGENT opinions are often the most instructive (and most dynamic) because they show that there are many variables in what appear to be simple cases. When it comes to college applications, there is never one truth and things are never very simple. </p>
<p>Think about it! And, by the way, I am not a parent, and there are many subjects for which I refrain to discuss or offer advice, especially since my thoughts would amount to idle speculation.</p>
<p>Ha. Here we are, arguing about how a kid reveals him/herself through writings- doesn’t anyone else get a sense of HP through his/her posts? I see many small, but strong qualities that I am coming to like. Yes, this is a forum, so the context allows for a little gentle rebuke, once in a while. </p>
<p>I also suspect Fast saw the nature of the wisdoms being argued and felt comfortable posing his question. Fine, by me. And, remember, one of the continuing threads within this thread was whether a kid can ask another’s thoughts. And, at what point should a line be drawn between figuring it out on his own and letting another be a guide.</p>
<p>I’m hoping the arguing part is winding down. We each have opinions based on exeriences. Truce.</p>
<p>Good luck to all the kids on this thread who are waiting.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I am sorry to have offended you. You are right in saying I probably didn’t handle the situation correctly. At first, I wasn’t even going to comment. That’s why I posted after my first response to Fastsauce. My temper got the best of me. I just thought it was so ironic that a student had a question and some parents kept right on going. I felt badly for Fastsauce. However, I do apologize again because I am the person in charge of my own feelings. I should have just helped him and left others alone
Lookingforward, I’m a girl
Thanks again for helping him. Also, thanks for the compliment. Like I said earlier, you are AWESOME :)</p>
<p>Oops Lookingforard, I said you were amazing earlier not awesome… Well, you are BOTH :)</p>
<p>{{{ group hug }}} ;)</p>
<p>HP, I was not offended at all. </p>
<p>I simply thought that it was not right to insist on calling out parents for not responding to one question, especially when many of the parents in this thread have spent years offering advice and support.</p>
<p>This might have been updated since I first posted …</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/8131-dont-dabble-your-ecs-stay-focused.html?highlight=uc+guidelines#post78263[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/8131-dont-dabble-your-ecs-stay-focused.html?highlight=uc+guidelines#post78263</a></p>
<p>Originally posted on 11-15-2004 by Xiggi
Senior Member</p>
<p>I think that the following guidelines represent a must-read for students and parents evaluating their final tally of EC. While the subjective analysis of the UC might be different from other selective schools, it is important to realize that the vast majority of the activities commonly reported by students will -and should- NOT earn any brownie points. Notice how you need THREE items to earn any leadership points and how most activities are excluded. It is amazing how many of the activities that matter little to nothing represent the bulk of the activities listed by students on CC. In my opinion, this is yet another example of the dysfunctional relation between high school counselors and colleges adcom. The chasm between what colleges expect to see from high schoolers and what high schools routinely advise is growing at alarming rates. Most high schools’ GC are still listening to ABBA and the Beatles! </p>
<p>UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA - EC SCORING GUIDELINES</p>
<p>LEADERSHIP PROMISE: </p>
<p>Leadership promise is measured by an applicant’s involvement in extracurricular activities at their school, community or home. Three or more are required.
Points: Three or more leadership roles that demonstrate one’s capacity to direct or influence the course of an activity/organization or the action of others – in activities at school, in the community or at home. Must show consistent participation (i.e., A school year or sport season) or some indication of achievement. Examples:
- Chief or section editor of school newspaper or yearbook
- Team captain
- Section leader in the school band, drum major, conductor
- Director, stage manager or choreographer of a school play
- Student body or class officer
- President or vice president of team/club or volunteer organization
- Representative to the school board, city council or area representative for a community organization
- Mock trial officer or delegate to a regional or larger conference
- Girls/boys state or national delegate
- Model UN head delegate or junior statesman delegate to regional or higher level conference; undersecretary or general secretary
- Leadership role in Girl/Boys Scouts, Sea Scout, Quarter Master
- Life Scout/Silver Award, Eagle Scout/Gold Award (received or in progress)
- 4-H Diamond Star or All-star; 4-H Teen Leader, national conference team member; state ambassador
- Link crew team leader
- Peer trainer or mediator
- Lead person in a major activity, such as a fund-raising drive, cultural activity or tutoring program
- Youth educator in community activities such as Sunday school teacher or coach
- Participation in highly selective leadership program
- Parental role at home as primary care giver or major wage earner
No points - Member of club, organization or sport team
- Lower officer of non-selective club
- Volunteer for community organization
- Tutor
- Junior Statesman participant
- Future Business Leaders of America
- Model UN participant
- Teaching assistant
- Habitat for Humanity volunteer
- School Accreditation Review Team
- Link Crew member
- Mexicali Missions project volunteer
- 4-H star ranks bronze-gold
- Umpire, referee or lifeguard (unless description in personal statement satisfies leadership definition)</p>
<p>SPECIAL TALENTS AND SKILLS:
A special talent or skill involves substantial participation or exceptional performance in the arts, sciences, languages, athletics, etc. that demonstrates hard work and accomplishment.
Points: Persistent involvement in two activities for 3 years each, resulting in distinguished recognition at the school or higher level or representing outstanding effort and dedication in the community; or long-term involvement in one activity resulting in recognition at the state level or the right to compete at the national level. Examples:
- Debate tournament winner
- Speech or essay contest winner (Forensic awards)
- Dance/music award winner
- Lead in school play
- 1st chair in school band/orchestra or beyond
- Sports – All league 1st team, athlete of the year, league MVP; state or national
- State or national level championship team
- Academic Decathlon winner
- National Merit semifinalist or finalist
- 4-H Emerald Star; Presentation Day winner in regional or state competition
- FFA champion or reserve champion award
- FFA regional, state or national proficiency awards
- Model UN best delegate
- Mock trial individual award at regional level; team award at state level
- Participation in a highly selective program such as the National Science Foundation Young Scholar’s Program, COSMOS, etc.
- Extended involvement or experience in another culture or one’s own culture, representing outstanding effort and enabling the student to contribute knowledge to the educational experience. Examples: Proficiency in a language other than English that is used to serve the community or study in non-English speaking communities or countries where the student plans to work. Proficiency in traditional cultural skills and talents.
- Year-round employment or volunteer work of 12+ hours per week where work is skilled and demonstrates responsibility such as writing articles for newspaper, computer programming, Web design, etc.</p>
<p>No points: Continuous involvement in activities but no distinguished recognition is received.
- Continuous long-term music lessons
- Awards for Golden State Academic Exams
- Who’s Who
- CSF
- Presidential award for academic and physical fitness
- National Merit commended or scholar
- Model UN commended performance
- Honorable mention awards
- Participation in non-selective summer programs
- Academic decathlon participant
- Recognition for good performance
- Honor roll
- School most valuable player
- Most improved player
- Coach’s award
- Varsity letter(s)
- Congressional award
- Member of a championship team unless at state or higher level
- Pages for state or national senate or assembly</p>
<p>**PERSONAL DIFFICULTIES & PERSEVERANCE:
This is based on a reading of the personal statement for documentation of the applicant’s ability to persist and overcome unusual, seemingly insurmountable difficulties or challenges which may have affected the applicant’s ability to achieve full academic potential during middle or high school.
Points
We strongly consider factors over which the student has little or no control and which are inevitably linked to the student’s academic achievement. Difficulties and challenges usually involve multiple factors, such as:
- A history of low income
- Adverse home environment
- Unusual family disruption
- Drug, physical and mental abuse
- Unusual medical/emotional problems
- Frequent change of schools (3 or more high schools)
- Lack of exposure to appropriate role models
- Adverse immigration experience within the past five years
- English as a second language
- Assumption of role as primary caretaker of the family
- Unusual disruption in school, residential or tribal community (e.g., long-term school strikes, widespread natural disasters, etc.)
- Active discouragement or severe lack of support from family or school personnel
No points
Isolated events of short duration that have little or no effect on the student’s academic development, such as: - Short-term illness such as a broken leg, flu
- Short-term adverse incidents (e.g., short-term closure of school due to inclement weather, short-term absences from school to care for a family member, etc.)
Situations or circumstances that the student is capable of changing but did not do so. - Unfocused student
- Dislike of school and teachers
- Elective trips and vacations during the school year
- Elective employment
- Elective community, social, recreational and other extracurricular activities.**MARKED IMPROVEMENT:
Academic record from 9th to 11th grades shows marked improvement in grades or significant shift in academic rigor.
Points - From having mostly C’s or less to B’s and A’s
- From having mostly C’s and B’s to almost all A’s
- A shift from non-college preparatory course work to college preparatory
- A shift from only college prep to almost all advanced courses such as advanced placement & transferable college courses with B’s and A’s
No Points - No change in course work rigor, including shift from college prep to regular honors courses
- No improvement in grades received
- From having mostly C’s and B’s to almost all B’s
- From having mostly A’s and B’s to almost all A’s</p>
<p>I think you should post it next September, when all the ED kids are doing their “chance me” begging. They will flip.</p>
<p>Heaven only knows what the UCs are up to, these days. We do not use that “system” - nothing rigid like that. The value in this post is to give an idea of what IS impressive, what simply is not, what helps in some ways, when combined well with other accomplishments- and what’s deadly. More or less, sometimes more, sometimes less. It depends. No two kids are alike. No activity is the same at every hs or in every community.</p>
<p>IME, there is a further subjective analysis, re: combinations of activities, actual time spent, the actual significance of the activity, in the conexts of the kid’s stats and his hs and family circumstances, etc.</p>
<p>jym626 - back atcha ;)</p>
<p>xiggi,</p>
<p>What are those points for EC’s? How should we understand it? If you accumulate(?) enough points it becomes a hook?</p>
<p>I like the group hug idea… That was funny :)</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for the answers! To clear things up a bit, I did not have “bad” grades freshman year, but I definitely didn’t do as well as I should have. In my first semester, I got a 3.66 weighted, but after that I kept on improving. The next semester I got a 4.0 weighted, then another 4.0 weighted, then a 4.33 weighted, then another 4.33, and now I am on track to get a 4.83 this semester. </p>
<p>But thanks again everyone, I think I got the answers I was looking for.</p>
<p>Fastsauce, it sounds like your grades are amazing! That’s so impressive! I CAN’T say," well, considering what he has been through that’s pretty good." A 4.83 is impressive and considering how much you have gone through it is truly remarkable!!! You will do great things in life :)</p>
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<p>Though not even remotely close to being a parent, I did notice his post but intentionally chose not to respond because of its divergence from the topic under discussion. It was a very valid question coming from fastsauce, but it is also one that is better off asked and commented upon in a thread of its own, don’t you think?</p>
<p>And see, now you’ve neglected to respond to Iglooo’s post. You’re so busy praising fastsauce that you didn’t even give an answer to what Iglooo asked:)!!!</p>
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<p>Honestly, part of the reason why I enjoy browsing CC forums even though college admission has no relevance to my own life anymore is that so some of its posters can write and debate very artfully and intelligently. I like hearing from people who have strong opinions, and didn’t actually see the discussions as mounting to an argument.</p>