Intelligence Versus Hardwork and education reforms

<p>Do you think grades quantify worth? Isn't that detrimental to our self-esteem to force ourselves to numbers and rankings? If you could rehaul the system used at your school, what would you change? Do you think, in general, that the US high school system does more good than harm?</p>

<p>Do you think people with "good" grades and high SAT scores are usually very intelligent or just people who work hard? Do you think you are intelligent? What gave you drive to do the work necessary for your grades?</p>

<p>If everything was good for our self esteem nothing would get done. </p>

<p>If I could overhaul my school I'd fire all the bad teachers and junk all extracurricular activities, including student government and dances. Reduce class sizes, and hire a lot more guidance counselors.</p>

<p>of course, all this costs money.</p>

<p>Overhaul your school's system of ranks and grades, not the administration and faculty.</p>

<p>Everything may not need to be good for our self-esteem, but is it necessary to tell students that they are not as worthy as others because they aren't as good at school?</p>

<p>yes it is. u gotta tell people where they stand in relation to others. If you don't tell em, they'll find out sooner or later anyway.</p>

<p>I'm better than all of you, then.</p>

<p>Intelligence = a car engine
Effort = fuel</p>

<p>Everyone can put in any amount of effort, but its the efficiency and power of your engine that determines whether you win the race.</p>

<p>IE, if you are BORN with a better engine (more intelligence) you will come out on top (assuming you spent the same amount of effort as anyone else)</p>

<p>Luckily, you don't need to spend effort to get that hot engine. It's provided for you. Unearned? Yeah. Unworthy? Sure. Fair? Nope. It's life. Heehee!</p>

<p>A few winners, a whole lot of losers. That's the output of your average high school then. And that's ok? That's the most efficient way for people to LEARN? You are all talking about scoring better on exams or whatever -- I'm talking about learning. Grades take the focus from learning and place it on competing.</p>

<p>You act like the only way for people to do anything is to make them feel bad otherwise. Are there no other options?</p>

<p>ohne,</p>

<p>Grades are definitely debateable. Ideally, we would not need grades. Even in this un-ideal world I sometimes wonder if we would be better off with grades. There are some schools that try it I think; you could check how it went for them. I'm too lazy to look! :) </p>

<p>It depends on why a person learns. It reminds me of my psych reading about morals and the different levels:
1st level - consequence or reward guides behavior and choices
2nd level - how you feel others judge you, community rules and expectations guide your choices
3rd level - self directed morals, you act according to your personal logically achieved morals (not culturally or socially imposed)</p>

<p>My ap psych class taught these levels (essentially) and made the point that not everyone reaches the latter levels. Many are stuck at the first and many the second. Grades in effect can become markers for consequences or rewards. Thus, they can impel people to work harder, etc. (Granted, the psych explanation was referring to morals. I think it is somewhat applicable here, though.) In fact, I would say at least half of the students in my school do what work they do because of the consequences of not doing so (not passing, parents chewing out for bad grades, grades not high enough for sports, etc).</p>

<p>There is another section of people that work hard because they don't want to let down their parents and teachers. Or these people work because they automatically accept that it is the "right" thing to do since that is what people say. They accept social imposed standards. I guess you could argue this both ways. They would probably work either way, though it would be easier to slack and not be noticed if there were not grades.</p>

<p>Finally, at the last level, you would decide for yourself why you are learning. You would work if you felt it was right. You would bypass the effort if you did not feel it was right. Grades don't matter as much as learning to people here, though they may to an extent. You don't need any incentive or any threat to work. You want it for yourself.</p>

<p>So, hmmm I know this is kind of a ramble. But I was just thinking about how this related to the psych stuff I read last unit. All in all, I don't think I'd change my habits much if we didn't have grades. Yet, I do think many would. Also, I enjoy having grades as a type of wager of how I am doing. And, sadly yes it is somewhat necessary when students must be compared. And yes comparison and competition is a fact of life. </p>

<p>Also, it may work not to have grades, but I think if we dropped the grading system initially people would really slack, at least at the high school level. Now, in elementry school I don't know if grades are very useful. It's sad if grades at that level make a kid feel like they have limits. Phew....</p>

<p>In order: No, no, too many things to list, good, both, yes, school is just easy</p>

<p>Instead of whining about the current system, what perfect system do you suggest we use instead? Do you think we should just teach everybody and not assign grades? If we do, what measure should we use to indicate a student's interest in learning and dedication?</p>

<p>to leonesa:</p>

<p>It's probably because if, in high school, you decide to just not learn what you don't care about, you'll probably be held back. I guess that is something I (perhaps you too) hadn't considered.</p>

<p>to ohnoes:
I never claimed to have a solution. I'm still looking for one, but it doesn't seem that anyone even cares about improving education in America. Slowly and slowly we're slipping behind other countries in terms of education, and therefore, jobs/research/et c. I think the entire problem might stem from compulsory education... Is it necessary for 18 years? Education might mean something if it weren't just a form of babysitting 'til you can buy cigarettes.</p>

<p>Although I don't really agree with the concept, grades test how well and how hard you perform. They attempt to gauge how well you'll do in life and in college. You can be extremely intelligent but not willing to "conform", do the "needless" work, or just not do what is required of you then you do not achieve the grade. In life, even if you are extremely bright, if you cannot follow rules and do as you are asked, you will not succeed. Thats why in college admissions a high test score and a low gpa gets you a lot less then a high gpa and a lower test score... it shows that you work hard and try. </p>

<p>Does it hurt our self esteem? Yes, but we're going to be ranked and classified sometime in our life and we my as well get used to it at a young age. A classless society is impossible in our country and so naturally, there will always be the richer, smarter, harder working, etc. We cannot avoid this, IMO.</p>

<p>Hey this is more of the no child left behind. No way will everyone be at the same level. It just isn't possible. Hey somebody is serving me fast-food. And it isn't gonna be no college grad. Determination I think over anything will get you somewhere in society. Hard-work over anything. Intelligence has it's place. It is time that people just accept their place that they are neither intelligent enough nor hard-working enough to make it somewhere. Less than half the graduating class from my high school goes to college. It is mostly because they are lazy burnouts. There are a couple hard-working dumb ones. Those come few and far between. Those are the people you feel the sorriest for.</p>

<p>And as for education. I am now behind at college because my parents didn't have the money to send me to the best schools in the suburbs. I could have been "smarter." So it isn't just the engine and fuel. It's the gas station you go to too. I know I'm getting way better **** from BP then the local Casey's (that crap is half dirt anyway).</p>

<p>Grades inspire motivation to get grades, not to learn. That's the problem with grades.</p>