<p>Someone posted a link to ACT and admission data for Emory on the Emory site on cc.
According to that Emory link, for 2007-2008,
92% of the students who were admitted supplied SAT scores
38% of admitted students supplied ACT scores.
To me this seams that only 8% supplied just ACT scores alone, and
30% supplied the SAT with the ACT.
Of the 8% who submitted just ACT scores, there is no information regarding how many who applied submitted just ACT scores.
Even though colleges in the top 20 say that they take ACT scores and/or SAT
scores, I think one has a better chance of being accepted if they supply SAT scores, or both ACT and SAT scores.
It may be more difficult to get accepted by supplying the ACT scores alone.
With over 20,000 applicants applying to most colleges today, perhaps college admission officers would rather take someone they know had strong SAT scores, rather than someone who had a comparable ACT score, but they were left to wonder if had they taken the SAT instead, if they would have scored lower.
The only way to know if one has the same chance of being accepted if they supplied ACT scores alone, is to look at the overall acceptance rate for that school, and see if the ACT rate is the same. ie. if the acceptance rate is 23%, then one would want to know if 23% of the 8% were accepted</p>
<p>Emory encourages SAT Subject Tests. Consider this scenario: Student X takes the SAT. Doesn't do too well, Takes the ACT. Does well. Wants to apply to Emory, so takes SAT Subject Tests. X sends Emory his ACT scores and sends his SAT Subject Test scores. However, the College Board shows all tests taken on the score report, so X's original SAT scores are now considered "submitted" even though he does not want them considered.</p>
<p>That is true, but what happens a lot is that students realize that they will have to show their low SAT scores if they submit their SAT II subject tests with the ACT. So many decide to just submit the ACT score and no SAT II subject tests which I believe Emory will accept.
The thing is that with 20,000 applicants, Emory and schools like it can be choosy. With so many applicants they may wonder why take someone who submitted just the ACT when they likely scored low on the SAT and just did not submit those scores, when they can accept someone with comparable SAT scores to the ACT. So if you have one person submitting lets say a 1400 with
the subject tests, and another person submitting a comparable ACT score but not SAT or SAT subject tests, the one with the SAT scores may look stronger.
If one does not do well on the SAT but does well on the ACT, unless their SAT score is so low as to not even be in the range, they should submit all tests and be honest with all test scores. Then Emory will convert the ACT score to a SAT score, and count whichever is higher, and not have to wonder about what their SAT scores were and if they were hiding something.
If a school wants to accept someone because they are a development legacy, an under represented minority, or an athlete, they will look highly at the ACT and take a score they think is in the range, even if on the lower side, and even if they know that applicant did not submit the SAT because they did not do well.
Of course anyone who scores a very high score on the ACT will be viewed highly by whatever school they apply to. However where one is submitting an ACT score alone that is just in the range of students the school accepts, I believe that the person who submits the SAT with SATII subject tests is at an advantage.
The only situation where this advantage does not apply and where submitting both the ACT and the SAT are the same, is where one submits the ACT and just the SATII tests, and admissions officers can clearly see they did not take the SAT reasoning test or their scores would have been sent</p>
<p>OK lots of speculation.......IMO, not that important to speculate.....Personally know people with very high SAT and ACT who were waitlisted/rejected and personally know people with fairly low ACT OR SAT's who were accepted....I'm not sure it makes as much of a difference as you think it might in the case of Emory....Now, if you are looking at Wash U, that might be a different story.....very, very concerned with stats.......Emory seems to be more "stats conscience" for Emory/Goizueta Scholars, not necessarily for admissions.....If you look at the accepted threads for this year's ED and RD rounds, you can see what I mean.......</p>
<p>don't over analyze the situation.<br>
Let's say a Emory prospect has a bad-SAT-day (<1800), putting them in the lower 25% for Emory, but yet has an 31 ACT (at or above median) and three Subject Tests of 700+. In such case that applicant should send all scores, IMO. The applicant readers may not even see the SAT score, but even if they do, they'll just assume that the applicant had a bad day -- no harm, no foul since the ACT score is 'in the zone'.</p>
<p>I am not talking about someone who takes both the SAT and ACT and submits both. For those applicants the college converts the ACT score to the SAT score and takes whichever is higher.
I am talking about the applicant who submits just the ACT score and no SAT I and no SAT subject tests.
The reality is that there is no data anywhere indicating how many who apply to various top colleges with only the ACT get accepted. We simply do not know if it is really a disadvantage to take the ACT.
When colleges post data on ranges of those they accept with SAT and ACT, we have no way of knowing if mostly those taken with the ACT were unbelievably high scoring applicants and lower scoring or middle scoring appilcants who might be recruited athletes or development legacies who did not perform well on the SAT and were advised to take the ACT.
I know that some people perform better on the ACT because it tests knowledge and not analytical skills. The thing is we dont know at ivy league and other top schools including those in the second tier that are also very competitive, if many who submit just the ACT (without any SAT II tests, and without the SAT I) have a more difficult time getting accepted.
Lets say for example that Emory accepted 2,000 students, and 10% of those who were accepted submitted only the ACT. That would mean that 200 were accepted with just ACT results. If that was the case, we dont know how many actually applied submitting only ACT scores. Do those who submit just the ACT have the same acceptance rate as those who submit the SAT and the ACT or the ACT and subject tests. We just dont know. Personally I think it is a significantly lower acceptance rate.</p>
<p>Do you have any other pertinent statistical information from schools (other than Emory) to support your position, or is it just your personal hunch? A sample of one isn't statistically sound evidence for such a supposition.</p>
<p>No one really knows because colleges do not publicly indicate how many of those they that applied submitted the ACT only, and how many of those who submitted the ACT only were accepted. If we knew this data we would know whether the chances of getting accepted with the ACT alone were significantly lower.
With over 20,000 applicants competing for a small number of spots at top tier and second tier schools, admission officers can be picky. If for example an applicant from the northeast where the SAT is very popular, applies to a northeastern school and submits just an ACT score and no SAT II subject tests, and/or no SAT, then the admission department may be left wondering if they took either the SAT I and/or the SAT II subject tests and did not do well. If there are two comparable applicants with similar grades and extracurriculars, and one submits just an ACT score of lets say 31, and the other submits SAT Reasoning Scores of lets say 720 720 along with SAT II tests also in the 700's, admission officers may be left wondering what scores the applicant who just submitted the ACT may be hiding. One is left to wonder if the admissions department would give preference to the applicant who submitted all the SAT scores.
The fact is that we do not know. Admissions departments say they accept either the ACT or the SAT and they have to say that. But there is no way to know if they view an applicant who submits just the ACT alone as a weaker candidate unless he or she submits an extremely high ACT score.
To err on the side of caution I think that applicants should do any of the following:
1. Submit SAT I and SAT II subject tests if subject tests are required.
2. Submit the ACT with two or three SAT II subject tests
3. Submit the SAT I and or the SAT II subject tests and the ACT (if at least the SAT I score is in the range the school accepts, even if it is at the lower range)
4. Submit the ACT alone ONLY if the ACT is very high and the applicant has not taken the SAT I or the SAT II subject test, or the ACT is very high, but the SAT I or SAT II scores are extremely low.
5. Submit the ACT alone if the ACT is in the middle range of those the school accepts, but the SAT is not a competitive score. However, applicants may not be considered as strong as those with comparable SAT scores who submit the SAT alone or with the ACT, as admission officers might wonder if that applicant took the SAT and did not perform well, and therefore only submitted the ACT</p>
<p>As I stated above, anyone who submits SAT Subject Test scores will also be submitting any SAT scores because that is the way College Board does it, whether or not they want those SAT scores considered. </p>
<p>You can go to any college's common data set and find the range of ACT scores of accepted students (and also the range of SAT scores). Presumably a student would not submit their ACT scores unless they wanted them considered for admission. Does the ACT range equate with the SAT range?</p>
<p>Most people seem to understand that if they send their SATII subject tests that their SAT scores will be sent also.
As for looking at the range the school accepts, it does not tell the applicant a lot in terms of whether they really will be at a disadvantage if they submit just the ACT. There is no way of knowing how many actually apply who have submitted only the ACT and how many of those may be accepted.</p>
<p>^^ Nearly all colleges say that they give equal weight to the SAT and the ACT. Are you suggesting they are not being truthful?</p>
<p>From the Princeton admissions site:</p>
<p>"While you may submit the ACT with the Writing Test in place of the SAT Reasoning Test, you must still submit scores for the three required SAT Subject Tests."</p>
<p>From the Harvard admissions site:</p>
<p>"...majority of students admitted to the College represent a range of scores from roughly 600 to 800 on each section of the SAT Reasoning Test as well as on the SAT Subject Tests...."</p>
<p>Perhaps Princeton and Harvard prefer SAT over ACT. Yale does not require the subject tests if you submit ACT score, which leads me to believe that ACT is given, at the least, equal weight to SAT. I think HYP is a good barometer for rest of the selective colleges.</p>
<p>P'ton used to give more weight to SAT, but they changed their policy several years ago and now (supposedly) give equal weight to each. Just bcos they require subject tests doesn't mean much, IMO. The UCs give equal weight and require subject tests. [Having spent a fair amount of time looking at each over the past few years, I'm not a big beleiver that the ACT is more curriculum-oriented -- it just looks that way. The Eng/CR are pretty similar. Math is math, but the SAT M requires reasoning, whereas the ACT requires speed. The ACT science test is its version of a reasoning section, but no science knowledge required.]</p>