<p>i am the sap who works as single mom and sent the worm to the best of his reach schools, which was also $10,000 a year less than the 2 other schools of same calibre. He worked in cafe from 1st semester on, then far better paying jobs/internships. When he won upper class scholarships for tuition, WOW!!! Had the rules been different in 2005, we would not have been full pay. All I can say is that we are a team. I will keep on working until Alzheimer’s takes over. Thank goodness my practice is good.</p>
<p>In the case where two parents have demanding careers and children, it can result in a power struggle over child care. Child care is ideal in theory, but kids get fevers, nannies can quit. Few corporations will tolerate the partner who loses a billion dollar deal by cancelling a meeting with a busy client because the day care center just called to say that Junior has a virus, threw up and must be picked up now. It’s an advantage to never have to leave work to care for a child because there is a spouse at home, and some families will choose this, especially if one parent advances while the other parent takes on primary responsibility for the children. Sometimes it’s not just choosing to stay home, it’s choosing the best way for the family to thrive as a unit. In our culture, it seems to be women who do this the most, but this does not mean they should not have the opportunities to earn elite degrees if they choose. I agree that it’s time to end the mommy wars and accept that most parents love their children and have various choices for working out child care. No education is ever wasted.</p>
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<p>Agree completely with this; thanks for putting it so well. And still women are being told there is a right and wrong way to “lean.” Having options is the point.</p>
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<p>In the case of most working/lower-middle class families where both parents have to work due to economic necessity and can’t afford childcare, another solution was to get the young child to start learning how to care for themselves and younger siblings from an early age. </p>
<p>Back in the '80s, we were known as latchkey kids and yes…I walked to/from school and had housekeys to get in/out of my family’s NYC apartment from the age of 6. While this practice seems to be frowned upon by most upper/upper-middle class parents…especially those with helicoptering tendencies, I still see some of this going on today. </p>
<p>Granted, such families probably have more to fear from a busybody neighbor calling CPS than back when I was growing up when it was regarded as a normal part of growing up.</p>
<p>I refuse to get pulled into the mommy wars. I was entrenched there and harangued from one side or another for twenty years.</p>
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<p>Cobrat, you do realize that what you describe is illegal in most areas and for a very good reason. Where I live it is against the law to leave children under the age of 10 in the care of anyone under the age of 14. Of course, people do violate this law and we sadly read stories in the paper about young children dying in fires or drowning as a result of being in the care of other children. I think you were very lucky that nothing bad happened to you (age 6? Really?). I imagine that had your parents been caught leaving you alone at that age, they’d have been charged with criminal neglect.</p>
<p>It’s sad that even now, so many think that children can raise themselves. Actually having a responsible adult (even one with <em>gasp</em> a college education) looking after children is certainly not a “waste” of education or “helicoptering”. I hope if you ever have children you place a higher priority on their care than your parents took with you.</p>
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<p>A lot of those no babysitter under the age of 14 or no unsupervised child under 13 laws seemed to have been passed during the period when I was an undergrad during the mid-late '90s. Those laws weren’t around while I was growing up until I left for college in the mid-'90s. </p>
<p>Back in the 1980’s and early '90s, this was considered perfectly normal, especially by working/lower-middle class families in which both parents had to work and couldn’t afford childcare on their salaries. </p>
<p>In fact, some current parents from those backgrounds feel that those laws were passed without accounting for the logistical and other constraints they face by upper/upper-middle class politicians and similarly situated SES supporters who have no experience with their lived realities and thus…the laws end up heaping more burdens on their already overfilled plates and placing them in effective no win situations. </p>
<p>As for your questioning whether my parents left me alone starting at 6, yes they did…along with everyone else in my old ‘80s era NYC neighborhood. Then again, folks of my parents’ generation* felt kids were more capable of being responsible for themselves at earlier ages than parents of later generations. </p>
<p>And I’m not including the fact my father was completely orphaned at 12 and had to learn to live by his wits with very little adult supervision from that point on. Did I mention this happened right when the Chinese Civil War was happening and he had to figure out a way to escape to Taiwan before the Chinese Communists took over? </p>
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<li>Mix of Greatest and Silent generation along with a few older boomers born in the mid-late '40s.</li>
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<p>I hate the mommy wars too. The point is viva la difference. People choose what works for them, and many solutions create happy children and happy parents.</p>
<p>Because I’m a college prof I did not outsource the raising of my kids. I commuted; my H’s photo studio was in our town. No nanny’s required. I was lucky to take off four years and keep my job in place so I saw all first steps. I was very privileged.</p>
<p>I object to referring to women who work as outsourcing the raising of their children. There seem to be many privileged folks on this thread. That’s great and a lovely lifestyle. Not being snide, just stating the obvious.</p>
<p>The sad thing is that there are many Americans barely making it with two incomes and we have no state supported day care. These are the folks who need our consideration, not parsing micro differences between the family styles of the upper middle class (which I also consider myself, so not pointing fingers.)</p>
<p>We can’t know if it is better for a particular family to have a stay-at-home parent or not. Every family is different.</p>
<p>Both are my kids are following me into academics from coming to so many of my classes, watching me teach and seeing themselves doing this. I didn’t encourage them. Originally one talked of law and the other medicine. One even started law school but hankered for a more intellectual (not intelligent – know brilliant lawyers) life.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if this is a good or bad thing, or if this is nurture or nature – inherited personality types and thinkers. But I can’t say if it’s a good thing or a bad thing, and since our lives would have been precarious without my job, I think I can say that working for me was a good thing.</p>
<p>I envy the women I know who can make working out and strengthening their bodies a top priority for the day (I know women who did not reenter the work force after their kids were out – my kids are in grad school so I am probably older than some posters) because I think this IS healthy.</p>
<p>But we do the best with the hand we have, and I think we should assume the other woman is too, even if her choices are very different than ours. And I struggle to be content as well, another positive, healthy place to be.</p>
<p>Today on my way home from work (which ended at 1:45) I met my son to see a movie on Renoir at our local art cinema. He’s an Art History grad student. I know my work has had something to do with being able to do this, and the fact that we feel like colleagues (although we’re in different fields.)</p>
<p>Mommy wars are silly.</p>
<p>great post mythmom!</p>
<p>Yes, snidely saying “outsourcing” instead of simply saying “childcare” is judgemental in and of itself. I had great childcare when my kids were little; I would not have been a good SAHM then. I unexpectedly became a mostly SAHM when my kids became late middle schoolers/high schoolers. I’d argue that being around at these ages is much much more important.</p>
<p>“I agree that it’s time to end the mommy wars and accept that most parents love their children and have various choices for working out child care. No education is ever wasted”</p>
<p>I agree. I completely admire people who have worked hard to become as educated as possible, whether in a structured school environment or not. No matter what it is they choose to do with it. Improving your mind just has to benefit society, whether it is used for work or not. I wish I was so motivated to keep on getting education but I just seem to find something else I want to do.</p>
<p>I love it when men and women have choices. That seems to be the optimal situation, to choose to work full time, part time, or not at all. Far easier when you are married to someone who is high income (or has money saved), impossible to have those choices if you don’t. Fortunately both me and my husband are in a high income profession, so we have both chosen to work about 2/3 time for the last 20 years. I think it has benefited us and the kids, having dad around more than usual. But it wouldn’t work for everyone, and many people wouldn’t want that. The best situation is to be able to choose how much and if you want to work, but why criticize others choices? What works for one family doesn’t necessarily work for everyone elses.</p>
<p>Without getting into it further- I have to comment that for a child to be on their own at the age of six is a good reason to call CPS. I cant think of any reason outside of an extreme unusual emergency where it would be a good idea to expect someone who is so young to be abandoned like that.
It has nothing to do with how responsible or " good" the children mind, their reasoning powers are not mature, let alone how physically vulnerable they are. What if a tragedy occurred? It has little to do with what is legal or illegal but what is common sense.</p>
<p>Most on here know that I am an advocate for giving responsibility to younger people. I think young people, early high school-ish, are by and large way too coddled and could take more responsibility if they were just offered it. </p>
<p>With that said, leaving a six year old home alone is incredibly stupid. Just stupid. I would hope neighbors would call if someone that young was left home alone.</p>
<p>And no, people weren’t generally left home alone from the age of six and younger. Not in my parents’ generation nor their parents’ generation. They were either raised by the SAHM, older siblings/cousins, or grandparents.</p>
<p>Im just thinking of the things my kids did when I was home! Even when both of us were home!
:eek:</p>
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<p>Abandoned. Judgmental much? </p>
<p>What do you expect parents who are working 6-7 days/week 14+ hours/day to provide a working/lower-middle class basics of food, shelter, educational supplies, etc to do when they can’t afford childcare on their salaries…and that’s assuming it was available which wasn’t…and is still often not the case today for those in their positions. Moreover, one cannot assume everyone has a nearby relative to look after one’s kids. </p>
<p>One thing I’ve seen is that these types laws or reports end up placing more burdens on such families while the upper/upper-middle class politicians and similar situated SES supporters are smug in their tut-tutting while being oblivious to the realities such two-income households are living. </p>
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<p>Unlikely if most of the neighbors do so themselves and the rest are aware of the underlying circumstances to understand that there’s practically little alternatives…including the local cops.</p>
<p>Cobrat, I grew up in a very low income area in a very low income family. Somehow, my family and our neighborhood made it work. So no, it’s not just middle and upper class people.</p>
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<p>The social dynamics of your low-income area may be very different from mine. </p>
<p>For instance, there aren’t as many large extended families and/or generations-long local social networks in low-income NYC neighborhoods as I found in low-income areas of rural Ohio.</p>
<p>Well, I’m not going to pretend that I have any kind of realistic view of what somebody might be going through if they feel they need to leave their child at home when they are 6 years old. There is no question that our culture has done an abysmal job on figuring out how to handle child care in this situation.</p>
<p>At the same time, leaving a kid home at that age without supervision is neglect. But, it may just be more of a comment on our society and what we have chosen to spend our money on than on the desperate parents.</p>
<p>Carry on.</p>
<p>When you employ creative thinking, you can come up with ways to adaquately fulfill your responsibilities of supervising your children and providing for them.
Many families form babysitting co-ops, perhaps through their church, or they apply for help for child care subsidies from local government programs.
Families also may offer child care themselves as a way to bring in money and to spend more time with their children.
I did this for many years myself.
:)</p>
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<p>Not going to happen in an area where with the exception of the few grandparents in the neighborhood, the only folks who are free during working hours tend to be druggies, ex-cons, or other unreliable and/or dangerous ne’er do wells. </p>
<p>As for government programs for childcare…they were dysfunctional at best in NYC at the time…and from what i heard…there hasn’t been much improvement. </p>
<p>Not to mention the White/Anglo neighbors who had been in the neighborhood for a while and had the linguistic/cultural experience to navigate the government bureaucracy had a deep aversion due to a mix of anti-welfare/government assistance pride and some racism against the Hispanic portion of my old neighborhood…vast majority of whom were fresh immigrants from places like the Dominican Republic. </p>
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<p>What you propose above is illegal in NYC without a license unless the caregiver is serving less than 3 children as seen here:</p>
<p>[New</a> York State Office of Children and Family Services (OCFS)](<a href=“http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/childcare/starting.asp]New”>http://ocfs.ny.gov/main/childcare/starting.asp)</p>
<p>It requires one to navigate multiple bureaucratic forms and relevant NYS and NYC bureaucracies to get the required license. A tall order…especially for those who are recent immigrants with little/no command of English as was the case with most Hispanic neighbors. </p>
<p>Moreover, this is one area where NYC does tend to crack down pretty quickly if they find unlicensed childcare providers…especially nowadays.</p>